Author Topic: Player-level chivalry vs. OOC metagaming and trolling  (Read 3831 times)

stueblahblah

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Player-level chivalry vs. OOC metagaming and trolling
« on: December 26, 2015, 04:34:52 PM »
So as discussion that lead to this subject was locked on the other thread with no explanation, I would open the subject here to focus solely on fair play and to try to determine what is considered allowed in this game, or to find out that anything what game mechanics allows is actually allowed.

In some part of the game I play against OOC metagaming-gang which:
- ignore all aspects of in-game world: players from different realms who has no in-game relation neither they care to establish it act on hourly coordination (or it's coordination on minute-by-minute basis, that I cannot figure out) as a coordinated assembly of slots. people who car for the game and other players only in sense of buttons they are limited to
- sack any kind of communication, reducing it to rude offenses and nothing else
- go as far as sending ooc threats is, that they will kill my characters on the other side of the game world who are not related to local story at all, as well as use their other character in other realms to approach me as a player, not character and continue their trolling.

how far it can go until saying that something of it is disallowed, or we will say that all the mere buttons allow is actually allowed?

the other aspect i see is "ideal" reaction to any mechanic event. asm i don't have to much of daily time to sit and play, especially not round-the-clock time, and whenever i log in i see those very same guys reacting to any of my action in matter of minutes. as it's not possible that any single player can be "alert" 24-hours a day, neither each of characters that seem unrelated can always react on different parts of map, my only conclusion is that some people share accounts and password, so the one who is at his "shift" uses and move chars of all his buddies. is that allowed as well?!

to summarize, is there any boundary between fair and unfair play, respect and disrespect toward both players community and game as such, especially game world as the most fundamental part of game?

Tom

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Re: Player-level chivalry vs. OOC metagaming and trolling
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2015, 11:38:34 PM »
There are two conflicting aspects here.

The first is that players should be able to rely on the game being truthful, so if the game says you can do this, the GM should not afterwards turn around and say "actually, you couldn't".

The second is that players should be able to rely on the game being honest, so exploiting bugs or design flaws in the game is not right and should not be rewarded.


So my basic answer is that if you act in good faith, then what the buttons allow is allowed. But if it should be obvious that this is a bug or that it should not be possible or that it cannot be ok like this, then you shouldn't do it even if the buttons allow it, and should instead report it as a bug.


As far as communication goes, what you mention with rude offenses etc., we have Terms of Service that basically say you should behave like a civilized human being.

However, there is one exception in what you wrote: Families.
Like in Game of Thrones, family members don't have to have anything to do with what's going on in order to suffer from the consequences, just because they are related to someone. The game gives you free choice to play your characters as related or not, and for playing them as a family there are advantages as well as disadvantages.

For sharing accounts: The ToS are not explicit about that, but I can see how people could read them as allowing it. So this is an open discussion. Permanent sharing is definitely not something I want. But I think for short-term ("hey, I'm on holiday, can you check my accounts once a day to make sure no catastrophies happen?") there might be some discussion.

So yes, there are boundaries.

Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Player-level chivalry vs. OOC metagaming and trolling
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2015, 11:46:12 AM »
I'm sorry Tom, but I've had threats bandied about killing off my characters regardless of familial ties, so your argument doesn't stand there.

You are honestly losing control of this game.

De-Legro

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Re: Player-level chivalry vs. OOC metagaming and trolling
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2015, 12:52:34 PM »
I'm sorry Tom, but I've had threats bandied about killing off my characters regardless of familial ties, so your argument doesn't stand there.

You are honestly losing control of this game.


And? Tom has just said he doesn't want that sort of behaviour. He never claimed such threats didn't occur.
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Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Player-level chivalry vs. OOC metagaming and trolling
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2015, 08:18:58 PM »

And? Tom has just said he doesn't want that sort of behaviour. He never claimed such threats didn't occur.

I think I'm going to stop posting on the forums. I seem to be part of the problem, whether or not I intend to be.

Tom

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Re: Player-level chivalry vs. OOC metagaming and trolling
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2015, 10:31:16 PM »
I'm sorry Tom, but I've had threats bandied about killing off my characters regardless of familial ties, so your argument doesn't stand there.

You are honestly losing control of this game.

Which argument? I'm laying out what is ok and what is not ok behaviour. Threats to kill characters that are part of a family are perfectly in-game. Note that other players don't have an in-game way of knowing if these are your characters, even. There are a couple families in the game whose characters belong to different players. There are also many players (myself included) who play different families.

If someone threatens to kill all your characters, then you can laugh about them and ask them how they even want to know who your characters are. I play a number of characters that AFAIK nobody knows is me, because they are unrelated to the three realm-starting families that everybody knows is me.

Nevertheless, such a threat would definitely fall under the clause in the Terms of Service forbidding behaving like an asshole, in which case you should bring it up to me, with the evidence you have, so I can check and take the necessary steps.

Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Player-level chivalry vs. OOC metagaming and trolling
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2015, 11:06:39 PM »
It's the latter Tom, what do you think the Calm Zone IRC thread was?

Tom

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Re: Player-level chivalry vs. OOC metagaming and trolling
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2015, 11:10:03 PM »
The one where I gave warnings to everyone involved? I think that I did so was clear enough, yes?

Ehndras

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Re: Player-level chivalry vs. OOC metagaming and trolling
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2015, 02:29:15 AM »
Regarding answers within minutes, some people are incredibly active - like myself. Any time something happens, MF sends me an email - and if I can do so, I log in via laptop or even my phone. :)
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stueblahblah

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Re: Player-level chivalry vs. OOC metagaming and trolling
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2016, 02:46:22 PM »
On top of it, is it certain that there is no some mechanical exploit of the game like illegal patch, bot or however it is called? I find it completely impossible coincidence that for literally months one group of players are always joining any battle I initiate within last hour before battle closure, appearing from nowhere. On top of the fact of responding 24 hours a day, there is another fact of always coming right on time, for months. Personally I cannot believe in so much of coincidence...

The other subject is that it is saddening that game mechanics crucially relies on I dare say stupid elements of game playing. No offense to anyone, it just my personal feeling that hanging on 24 hours a day just to react on any event within minutes is plainly stupid :-[ . How many people expects from this undoubtedly complex game mechanics in which so much effort is put to be sophisticated and complex, and how many rely on incredibly simple and trivial aspects of the game. Again it seems to be marketing question like the one how many people enjoy in treating other players as friends and how many actually prefer to hate other players? :(

Anyhow, happy New Year! :D

De-Legro

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Re: Player-level chivalry vs. OOC metagaming and trolling
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2016, 02:59:44 PM »
On top of it, is it certain that there is no some mechanical exploit of the game like illegal patch, bot or however it is called? I find it completely impossible coincidence that for literally months one group of players are always joining any battle I initiate within last hour before battle closure, appearing from nowhere. On top of the fact of responding 24 hours a day, there is another fact of always coming right on time, for months. Personally I cannot believe in so much of coincidence...

The other subject is that it is saddening that game mechanics crucially relies on I dare say stupid elements of game playing. No offense to anyone, it just my personal feeling that hanging on 24 hours a day just to react on any event within minutes is plainly stupid :-[ . How many people expects from this undoubtedly complex game mechanics in which so much effort is put to be sophisticated and complex, and how many rely on incredibly simple and trivial aspects of the game. Again it seems to be marketing question like the one how many people enjoy in treating other players as friends and how many actually prefer to hate other players? :(

Anyhow, happy New Year! :D


Its a web game, It is completely possible to code a bot that is undectable, except perhaps if you are stupid enough to make it active 24/7. Many languages can parse HTML pages, little bit of knowledge will let you decode what you need from that and send the correct commands back to the server. Hell a very simple bot could be coded in minutes using the same Codeception framework Tom uses for his unit testing.


And as has been explained to you multiple times, no one needs to hang around 24 hours a day to have good activity. Email/RSS feeds to your phone gives you round the clock updates for your characters. Give your realm mates your email address and you can easily share information quickly, and depending on the habits of your realm mates get responses quickly. One week in 4 I am on call 24 hours a day for work anyway, so I just set my work phone to collect M&F related messages the same as it does for critical work issues, and it wakes me up.
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Tom

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Re: Player-level chivalry vs. OOC metagaming and trolling
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2016, 08:06:06 PM »
It is possible to write scripts that do the same as a player on a browser could do.

It is impossible for any such scripts to change game data in a way that you could not. That data is simply not available, as it is handled on the server. While I cannot completely exclude the possibility that someone found an exploit and can manipulate server data, it is much more unlikely than in a game that runs on your computer.