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Questions, Conduct, & Feedback => Rage Zone => Topic started by: Velrun on May 23, 2014, 07:45:29 AM

Title: But out Rathgar
Post by: Velrun on May 23, 2014, 07:45:29 AM
Why is it when the Fading Isles finally gets over its fear of being attacked while engaging in war and actually starts something, do we then have 6 or so ships from Rathgar show up so they can do their "rading". Thanks guys, thanks for resetting the mindset of the Isles back to complete boredom and defense. I get that you guys find it difficult to bother raiding each other or whatever, but do you really need to travel so far to interfere in other realms that are busy trying to fix their own content creation problems?
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tan dSerrai on May 23, 2014, 08:51:44 AM
A small to medium raiding force by Rathgar landing on the Fading Isles _one year_ after the start of the game.

Do you yet know its intent? Are they out to carve a colony? Will they raid? Will they stay there? Will they move on? Have you done anything to contact them? Did you attempt to fight them? Did you attempt to negotiate, maybe draw them into your own wars?

There are so many possibilities. You can create content _with_ Rathgar even better than by staying 'alone'. The mindset of 'us against them' being the only possible is plain _wrong_. The mindset of 'This is our kingdom, noone allowed to enter or play there' is even wrong-er.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 23, 2014, 09:23:06 AM
Unexpected visitor, just hope they don't end up costing me the new player I recruited to take over those settlements.


A small to medium raiding force by Rathgar landing on the Fading Isles _one year_ after the start of the game.

Do you yet know its intent? Are they out to carve a colony? Will they raid? Will they stay there? Will they move on? Have you done anything to contact them? Did you attempt to fight them? Did you attempt to negotiate, maybe draw them into your own wars?

There are so many possibilities. You can create content _with_ Rathgar even better than by staying 'alone'. The mindset of 'us against them' being the only possible is plain _wrong_. The mindset of 'This is our kingdom, noone allowed to enter or play there' is even wrong-er.



Its not the Fading Isles, for those apparently unable to look at settlement info, Fading Isles no longer includes Hawks or Iuna. That said, no I won't be working to bring them into the conflict. Right now the conflict is a) nicely balanced and b) the idea of approaching a group that just shows up and starts attacking settlements to go fight my wars is a little odd to me. Had they not landed in territory that unfortunately is abandoned then perhaps there would have been someone there to fight them, unlikely though since Hawks is currently engaged in three separate conflicts.


Velrun has a point though. FI has been crippled for the longest time in doing anything interesting, out of the fear old time BM players tend to have that if they start a conflict the first thing that happens is that unassociated parties will jump on it. I'm sure you can understand why to some the current situation would look to match that fear.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Velrun on May 23, 2014, 09:40:50 AM
A small to medium raiding force by Rathgar landing on the Fading Isles _one year_ after the start of the game.

Do you yet know its intent? Are they out to carve a colony? Will they raid? Will they stay there? Will they move on? Have you done anything to contact them? Did you attempt to fight them? Did you attempt to negotiate, maybe draw them into your own wars?

There are so many possibilities. You can create content _with_ Rathgar even better than by staying 'alone'. The mindset of 'us against them' being the only possible is plain _wrong_. The mindset of 'This is our kingdom, noone allowed to enter or play there' is even wrong-er.

When will you players in Rathgar grasp basic psychology. When you act in this manner without preamble, when the first interaction someone has is finding out settlements are being attacked, that doesn't encourage content creation. All that does is encourage people who are busily involved in other things to say, screw it why bother. Its not about other people interacting with the island Kingdoms, its about the way Rathgar is hell bent on going about it. The wars here were a long time coming, with plenty of chances for everyone to voice disputes, for lines to be drawn etc. I could create content with Rathgar, we have been busy creating content with most the coastal mainland realms. Whether it would be defined as better is largely subjective, certainly none of what you outline holds any particular interest to me, it has no background for my character to be attached to at all.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Alumaani on May 23, 2014, 09:41:18 AM
What a surprise!  That old anti Rathgar thing again eh?  'Hope I Dont lose my new player because Rathgar is here!' well ill tell you what, posting that crap will more than guarantee you put the fear of god into them and actually scare them off yourself.  Round of applause for the anti Rathgar team!  YEAH!  It's good to see you guys really putting the community effort in.


Let me just get this straight...FI players post they have over 300 HI and many others have a few hundred troops with a lot of that medium (A force large enough to take on Rathgar in MO as I have seen the power of HI and most of Rathgar is light to medium troops), you sail to Rathgar and raid the coast, rathgar ships...only a couple mind...decide it might be fun to return the favour and once again this crap gets posted on the forum!


I can honestly say that it makes me feel sick.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 23, 2014, 09:49:39 AM
What a surprise!  That old anti Rathgar thing again eh?  'Hope I Dont lose my new player because Rathgar is here!' well ill tell you what, posting that crap will more than guarantee you put the fear of god into them and actually scare them off yourself.  Round of applause for the anti Rathgar team!  YEAH!  It's good to see you guys really putting the community effort in.


Let me just get this straight...FI players post they have over 300 HI and many others have a few hundred troops with a lot of that medium (A force large enough to take on Rathgar in MO as I have seen the power of HI and most of Rathgar is light to medium troops), you sail to Rathgar and raid the coast, rathgar ships...only a couple mind...decide it might be fun to return the favour and once again this crap gets posted on the forum!


I can honestly say that it makes me feel sick.


Since he is not active on the forums, I somehow doubt that. He is brand new, promised land and the first thing he see's is the land he thinks he is getting being raided. Perhaps he will stick around to see how things will turn out, perhaps not. All I can do is message him and tell him to stick around.


 I never sailed to any coast of Rathgar, nor did any of my vassals so far as I am aware. You are quite active on the forums so you no doubt know that I lost significant forces with the starvation code going active, and fighting several other conflicts has reduced what remains somewhat, but I doubt I shall, I'm spending enough time on line trying to move my characters on the battle fronts I am already engaged in, I doubt I can make the time to fight on another one, but perhaps someone else in the realm will.



Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Velrun on May 23, 2014, 09:50:20 AM
What a surprise!  That old anti Rathgar thing again eh?  'Hope I Dont lose my new player because Rathgar is here!' well ill tell you what, posting that crap will more than guarantee you put the fear of god into them and actually scare them off yourself.  Round of applause for the anti Rathgar team!  YEAH!  It's good to see you guys really putting the community effort in.


Let me just get this straight...FI players post they have over 300 HI and many others have a few hundred troops with a lot of that medium (A force large enough to take on Rathgar in MO as I have seen the power of HI and most of Rathgar is light to medium troops), you sail to Rathgar and raid the coast, rathgar ships...only a couple mind...decide it might be fun to return the favour and once again this crap gets posted on the forum!


I can honestly say that it makes me feel sick.

Are you seriously suggesting they attack on Hawks is based on statements made on the forums?
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tan dSerrai on May 23, 2014, 09:50:41 AM
Fading Isle: I am using this for the geographic area, not the political entity. I am well aware of there being different political entities there, thank you.

Then by damn _contact_ the parties. Offer them something, include an ooc notice explaining why and what. You could probably tell them 'we are fighting a sacred war, and would appeal to you as warriors to let this be fought.' You could offer a token tribute. You could do a whole lot of things.

How on earth are we as players of Ratghar to _know_ what is considered 'ok' - and what not?!? Stating here on the forum 'butt out' is _not_ cooperative playing at all. How long have the players of FI known about Rathgar? Has known about the military might? Has _anyone_ bothered to send an emissary there?

I am starting to get _really_ annoyed at the expectation that Rathgar has to 'know' about the situation all over M&F, has to respect each and every wish of the players - without them even bothering to inform any of us either ingame or ooc. In any realworld situation I would expect emissaries to trip over each other, eagerly trying to get these pesky northmen to 'leave us alone'.

Again, there are many possibilities there - if they do not mesh completely with current plans, then so what? You will never be able to expect all your plans to work in a sandbox.


IF there is an ooc-gamethreatening situation developing THEN INFORM US, CALMLY, GIVE REASONS - and offer a suggestion on how to proceed. I am more than happy to comply.

I am NOT happy at the very first twitch being 'Butt out' followed by 'those unable to look up info' followed by 'we are doing something interesting, you do not know about it, leave us alone' without ANY constructive suggestion either OOC or IC.

So: what would any player of the FI (geographical) suggest? I am listening.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tan dSerrai on May 23, 2014, 10:06:23 AM
PS: Alumaani - your view is documented, however, since you are not part of this raid I would ask a favor: do not give input to this thread.

I will try to get something constructive out of this - thus, FI players, PLEASE offer suggestions.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Velrun on May 23, 2014, 10:09:27 AM
Fading Isle: I am using this for the geographic area, not the political entity. I am well aware of there being different political entities there, thank you.

Then by damn _contact_ the parties. Offer them something, include an ooc notice explaining why and what. You could probably tell them 'we are fighting a sacred war, and would appeal to you as warriors to let this be fought.' You could offer a token tribute. You could do a whole lot of things.

How on earth are we as players of Ratghar to _know_ what is considered 'ok' - and what not?!? Stating here on the forum 'butt out' is _not_ cooperative playing at all. How long have the players of FI known about Rathgar? Has known about the military might? Has _anyone_ bothered to send an emissary there?

I am starting to get _really_ annoyed at the expectation that Rathgar has to 'know' about the situation all over M&F, has to respect each and every wish of the players - without them even bothering to inform any of us either ingame or ooc. In any realworld situation I would expect emissaries to trip over each other, eagerly trying to get these pesky northmen to 'leave us alone'.

Again, there are many possibilities there - if they do not mesh completely with current plans, then so what? You will never be able to expect all your plans to work in a sandbox.


IF there is an ooc-gamethreatening situation developing THEN INFORM US, CALMLY, GIVE REASONS - and offer a suggestion on how to proceed. I am more than happy to comply.

I am NOT happy at the very first twitch being 'Butt out' followed by 'those unable to look up info' followed by 'we are doing something interesting, you do not know about it, leave us alone' without ANY constructive suggestion either OOC or IC.

So: what would any player of the FI (geographical) suggest? I am listening.

What effort did you make to learn of the situation before jumping in? How many times is Rathgar going to exclaim "we didn't know the situation" before attempting to actually learn it? What we know about Rathgar is all OOC from the forums, as is most of our knowledge about your strength. I don't see how it is appropriate to go acting on that knowledge to try and set up insurance policies against them. I couldn't really care less about if you are happy with my thread or not. It's rage thread, thus made in rage and unlikely made considering others all that much.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 23, 2014, 10:15:39 AM
PS: Alumaani - your view is documented, however, since you are not part of this raid I would ask a favor: do not give input to this thread.

I will try to get something constructive out of this - thus, FI players, PLEASE offer suggestions.


It is what it is. Contact was made with one of my characters, If I have time I will try and make something of it, but coming into the weekend time is not something I have a heap of.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Alumaani on May 23, 2014, 10:26:32 AM



@Tan - I am already on the isles and raiding with a small force so it does involve me mate and whats more I am sick of listening to this negativity.
@Velrun - I haven't a clue what your talking about but FI players landed on our shores and took settlements, my clan sent 50 warriors to plunder some of your coastal villages in response. We can't go south because EI are too weak and Tom threatened to castrate us, we now can't go west because we are spoiling your fun?


What are we saying here?  That Rathgar should sit in a bubble and stay out of world affairs?  Just fight each other until the rest of the world is large enough to defeat them?  I am truly at a loss here but I am at the point of throwing my own dolls out of the pram, believe me.



Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tan dSerrai on May 23, 2014, 10:29:11 AM
Velrun,

Why must Rathgar gain information, then judge 'does this mesh with all other players intentions?' (for a small raid) WHILE other players expect to not have to exert _any_ effort in that area?

Note that I agree that players of Rathgar should act responsible, using ooc knowledge to try and not simply stomp everyone else. However, a small raid, of which neither the reasons, nor its extent, nor its plans are known to you is NOT reason enough to go and request ooc 'Rathgar must leave'.

Yes, you only know about Rathgar ooc....and use this as argument towards 'we could not contact Rathgar'. However, at the same time you expect Rathgar to know about you, your intentions, the situation - and making decisions based on that AND are not happy about the decisions taken.


All:
The gameworld is now one year old - there has been more than enough time to contact Ratghar, ESPECIALLY if one could expect rumors of that land and its power to reach the FI.


Again: Inform me here or IC, I am happy to _create content_. Suggest whatever you think fits the situation IC, suggest here whatever would make this fun for you - and us. I will gladly play jointly with you.

Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Alumaani on May 23, 2014, 10:36:54 AM
Exactly Tan, whats upsetting me is exactly what we discussed in a previous topic, there is absolutely no trust for experienced players in Rathgar to manage their own game and its relationship with others.  Why is it that we are consistently attacked on the forums?  The point is made again by Velrun himself when he states all he knows of Rathgar is what is posted here and even De-Legro on the Dev team is jumping in with subliminal suggestion that his new players will leave because we steal 50 gold from their coastal villages!


I just don't get it.


I have images in my mind of the monks in Lindisfarne as the vikings landed on their shore, flipping open their great tomes and writing in them...'Its so unfair, just but out!  They didnt even check our political situation or take into consideration the local warfare before coming!'  throwing down that tome and sitting in a corner of the Abbey sucking their thumbs.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 23, 2014, 11:05:09 AM
Exactly Tan, whats upsetting me is exactly what we discussed in a previous topic, there is absolutely no trust for experienced players in Rathgar to manage their own game and its relationship with others.  Why is it that we are consistently attacked on the forums?  The point is made again by Velrun himself when he states all he knows of Rathgar is what is posted here and even De-Legro on the Dev team is jumping in with subliminal suggestion that his new players will leave because we steal 50 gold from their coastal villages!


I just don't get it.


I have images in my mind of the monks in Lindisfarne as the vikings landed on their shore, flipping open their great tomes and writing in them...'Its so unfair, just but out!  They didnt even check our political situation or take into consideration the local warfare before coming!'  throwing down that tome and sitting in a corner of the Abbey sucking their thumbs.

Yes I will probably lose a player. In this instance that is just how things go. The player OOC expressed to me how he hates most strategy games becuase attacks are generally surprise events. He was looking forward to a game where conflict was the end result of politics. Just bad luck that the first conflict he personally will be involved in didn't arise from that. That is no ones fault, just one of those realities that happen.

I do feel kind of silly for trading troops for food trades so recently though. Wonder if they would notice if I recalled them.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tan dSerrai on May 23, 2014, 11:32:19 AM
Heck, notify that player ooc. I will gladly avoid him, bending backwards IC to enable you/us to keep him playing. Tell me which estates to avoid, I'll have my char superstitiously 'see birds croak near that path' and wander somewhere else.

Or he could hide out in the woods, watch us pass by. Or he could fight us - expecting to be treated honorably and avoid his estate due to his fighting us. All these options are there, pick whichever suits you and him best and inform me here. I would find it great if we could cause 'fright', but no real damage.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tom on May 23, 2014, 11:32:42 AM
you sail to Rathgar and raid the coast, rathgar ships...only a couple mind...decide it might be fun to return the favour

He's right in that, you know? FI did raid Rathgar first. However:


When will you players in Rathgar grasp basic psychology. When you act in this manner without preamble, when the first interaction someone has is finding out settlements are being attacked, that doesn't encourage content creation.

This is also true - not specifically of Rathgar, but of anyone. So how can we create more interaction?

There are many gamey ways of forcing it - like forcing that you deliver a declaration of war before you can attack a settlement - but that doesn't quite cut it. It would prevent raids and real, intentionally unannounced attacks.

Maybe we could enforce interaction when someone takes control of a settlement? It could be easy, like the creation of a conversation between taker and owner (and everyone opposing or supporting auto-joining it). That way, even if the attacker doesn't speak up, the defender can initiate the interaction. Would that help?

Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tan dSerrai on May 23, 2014, 11:37:09 AM
Yes, having such a conversation would be a great aid for interaction, especially if other characters would auto-join.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tom on May 23, 2014, 11:44:37 AM
What are we saying here?  That Rathgar should sit in a bubble and stay out of world affairs?  Just fight each other until the rest of the world is large enough to defeat them?

I've said this a dozen times, but once more can't hurt: Rathgar was created in the GS as a realm with constant internal conflict, a lose coalition of tribes. It was intended to be a small realm. It turned out the concept was so popular that it instead became the large realm of the GS. This was allowed under the assumption that its size and power would not matter because most of it would be directed at internal conflict.

And that simply didn't happen. Aside from a few internal conflicts, the vast majority of Rathgars moves have been against outsiders.

Again, the combination has been the problem. If Rathgar had been a small realm, as intended, that would not have been a problem. If Rathgar had been large, but primarily absorbed in internal conflict, there wouldn't have been a problem.


But now all is said and done, Rathgar is not one entity anymore and I sincerely hope we will finally see some of that internal conflict that was promised to us.

And for the record: I have no problem whatsoever with a Rathgar raiding force anywhere else on the map, including EI.

And if Rathgar players want the rest of the game world to change their minds about Rathgar, then we need more battle symbols on the map in the areas of Rathgar tribes, and more shifts in borders, and more outwards visibly signs of this internal turmoil that was supposed to be one of if not the cornerstone of the realm concept.

Then again, EI also fell short of the promised concept, mostly due to so many high-ranking members going inactive. My hopes lie with realms like Ariamis, Ascalon, Black Forest, to name only the ones that I know better (there are more, I just don't know how active or interesting they are).

I don't care if all of the GS realms bite the bullet. I don't care who lives or dies. All I care is that the game works nicely, and as long as the game is so small that it can be map-painted, some care must be applied. If we had 1000 players, none of this would be a problem. Sure, maybe Rathgar or someone else could totally dominate the mainland and the isles - but there would be three or four other continents of the same size nearby.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Velrun on May 23, 2014, 11:50:21 AM
He's right in that, you know? FI did raid Rathgar first. However:

So far as I know the raid never got past Clan Northmanni lands. Yet another example of the Rathgar nationalism that supposedly no longer exists?


This is also true - not specifically of Rathgar, but of anyone. So how can we create more interaction?

There are many gamey ways of forcing it - like forcing that you deliver a declaration of war before you can attack a settlement - but that doesn't quite cut it. It would prevent raids and real, intentionally unannounced attacks.

Maybe we could enforce interaction when someone takes control of a settlement? It could be easy, like the creation of a conversation between taker and owner (and everyone opposing or supporting auto-joining it). That way, even if the attacker doesn't speak up, the defender can initiate the interaction. Would that help?

A character in a settlement can message the settlement owner, but the settlement owner has no way to initiate the conversation. Would it be possible to start a conversation with anyone within interaction distance of the settlement?
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 23, 2014, 11:52:18 AM
I suspect the interaction with Hawks would have been greater had they not landed in settlements that currently have a inactive lord.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tom on May 23, 2014, 11:53:02 AM
Just bad luck that the first conflict he personally will be involved in didn't arise from that.

Uh, do explain to him that it was probably the reaction to our raid on them? Tell him these are barbarians from the north and we decided to not deal with them (but we did send ambassadors to other mainland realms). Even silence can be interpreted as politics sometimes.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tom on May 23, 2014, 11:54:08 AM
So far as I know the raid never got past Clan Northmanni lands. Yet another example of the Rathgar nationalism that supposedly no longer exists?
/quote]

True as well.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 23, 2014, 12:01:07 PM
Uh, do explain to him that it was probably the reaction to our raid on them? Tell him these are barbarians from the north and we decided to not deal with them (but we did send ambassadors to other mainland realms). Even silence can be interpreted as politics sometimes.


I can try, I've sent messages to him, but the last message to me was a rather angry OOC when he found out Rathgar was raiding the lands I promised him. Perhaps the game would never have meet his expectations anyway who can tell.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Velrun on May 23, 2014, 12:05:24 PM

What are we saying here?  That Rathgar should sit in a bubble and stay out of world affairs?  Just fight each other until the rest of the world is large enough to defeat them?  I am truly at a loss here but I am at the point of throwing my own dolls out of the pram, believe me.

You were all just forced to dissolve Rathgar for various reasons. It never occurred to you all to lie low for a week or two. Let the idea that Rathgar isn't a all powerful united nation to actually filter on through the game population and become part of the culture? I wasn't even aware that clan Alumaani was also raiding, that just make the entire image worse since it smacks of co-operation between two to the largest clans, and probably the two most powerful realms in the game. You might not have sent big forces, thing with this game is unless someone bothers to message troops sizes when they spot them, most people in a realm never know what they are up against until a battle is fought. Reports from the Hawks lands have only about 40 troops spotted, yet more then 800 extra food being consumed.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tan dSerrai on May 23, 2014, 12:12:45 PM
Note that I had no idea of the Alumaani raiding - so there IS no coordination. Also note that I am not raiding FI due to the FI raid against the Northmanni. I am raiding the FI because I do not want to raid EI, Ascalon or any newer realms. I thought that FI would be able to stomach being _temporarily_ raided by a force consisting of less than 10% not of my clan but of my own troops.

And - lying low: no, it did not occure to us to completely stop interacting with the outside world. Why should it? Are you seriously suggesting we should draw a dike around Rathgar and not cross it for the next 2 RL years? And if not, then WHAT would you suggest? 'Did it not occur to you...' is no constructive suggestion at all.

Again, give a constructive idea, give suggestions on how to act, give us points of interaction to create something together. 'I do not like you being there' is perfectly ok. 'I want you to vanish for ooc reasons while not being willing to either talk or interact' is not.


@Tom: of my clan, less than 10% are involved in the raid in FI. The rest is balefully staring across the borders within Ratghar. I think this qualifies as 'primarily absored in internal conflict'. We are also holding a Thing right now, which disallows active warfare during its duration.



Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Velrun on May 23, 2014, 12:22:18 PM
Note that I had no idea of the Alumaani raiding - so there IS no coordination.

And - lying low: no, it did not occure to us to completely stop interacting with the outside world. Why should it? Are you seriously suggesting we should draw a dike around Rathgar and not cross it for the next 2 RL years? And if not, then WHAT would you suggest? 'Did it not occur to you...' is no constructive suggestion at all.

Again, give a constructive idea, give suggestions on how to act, give us points of interaction to create something together. 'I do not like you being there' is perfectly ok. 'I want you to vanish for ooc reasons while not being willing to either talk or interact' is not.

No I was quite clear in my time frame. A week or two to let things settle down from the last ruckus doesn't seem unreasonable. Mind you I never said no interaction, laying low doesn't mean go away. It would suggest not starting another drama when the last one is still fresh in everyone's mind and likely to bleed over into it.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tan dSerrai on May 23, 2014, 12:38:02 PM
@Velrun:

There is still no suggestion on what to do in the current situation....and forgive me, but sending 10% of my forces to a realm that did seem to not have suffered any internal warfare, is one year old, was _asking_ for more action both qualifies as 'laying low' and 'content creation'. I am truly and honestly very negatively surprised at this reaction.

@De-Legro: if possible, give me the IG name of that player you might lose, point me towards any way to contact him and I'll offer both an ooc - reassurance that he'll not lose any estates and that he does not need to fight where he does not want to.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 23, 2014, 12:50:36 PM
@Velrun:

There is still no suggestion on what to do in the current situation....and forgive me, but sending 10% of my forces to a realm that did seem to not have suffered any internal warfare, is one year old, was _asking_ for more action both qualifies as 'laying low' and 'content creation'. I am truly and honestly very negatively surprised at this reaction.

@De-Legro: if possible, give me the IG name of that player you might lose, point me towards any way to contact him and I'll offer both an ooc - reassurance that he'll not lose any estates and that he does not need to fight where he does not want to.


Oh he has no estates yet. The Baron of the Verve Forest (think I got that right) went inactive quite some time ago, and he controlled nearly all the settlements up where you are. Some existing players kindly spent some time there running TO's so that we can prepare to both try and claim back the Barony title and prepare the settlements to be easily handed over to new players as they join. Last I know he was headed up that way though to take control of Ironwood.


I don't know how you would think we have no internal warfare. We have been at war with Red Forest pretty much since the creation of the White Company, little battle icons all over the map for more then a week. Then there is the whole seceding from Fading Island thing, which is somewhat newer but certainly has been spoken about on the forum. Apparently Tom has declared war on me for that, would be nice if diplomatic relations messaged the recipient at all.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: feyeleanor on May 23, 2014, 01:11:44 PM
[size=78%]@Tan - I am already on the isles and raiding with a small force so it does involve me mate and whats more I am sick of listening to this negativity.[/size]

@Velrun - I haven't a clue what your talking about but FI players landed on our shores and took settlements, my clan sent 50 warriors to plunder some of your coastal villages in response. We can't go south because EI are too weak and Tom threatened to castrate us, we now can't go west because we are spoiling your fun?



It's not just 50 warrior now so it doesn't look like a small force to me  ;)
Personally I've no problem with your getting involved. I ran that raid against north Rathgar to see if it was possible (Tom tried to get all the Duchies to participate but only Prydhain did) and got my butt well and truly kicked, so a return match seems spot on.



I can't guarantee we can give you much sport though as it's taken bloody ages to get any kind of army together between our food problems and too many players who've gone inactive after being given lands. But we'll do our best.


Quote

[/size][size=78%]What are we saying here?  That Rathgar should sit in a bubble and stay out of world affairs?  Just fight each other until the rest of the world is large enough to defeat them?  I am truly at a loss here but I am at the point of throwing my own dolls out of the pram, believe me.[/size][size=78%]



If Prydhain falls I think I'll come join you guys in the north. Sounds like there's fun to be had - especially when some of the dark lands open up to your west.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Andrew on May 23, 2014, 01:19:16 PM
@Velrun:

There is still no suggestion on what to do in the current situation....and forgive me, but sending 10% of my forces to a realm that did seem to not have suffered any internal warfare, is one year old, was _asking_ for more action both qualifies as 'laying low' and 'content creation'. I am truly and honestly very negatively surprised at this reaction.

I've always found this weird, but of the realms I was in at the beginning (and I had characters in all three GS realms) the Fading Isles was probably the most internally argumentative about things. The power alignment between the King and his subordinate Dukes and Counts has always been an interesting topic, though things got quiet as the main powers went behind closed doors and discussed.

Honestly, it was probably just bad timing. From the outside, you didn't see our bickering or our arguments. All you saw was a realm that wasn't doing much. Then, moments before you arrived everything came to a boil and the realm you thought so quiet shattered. Suddenly the maps were being redrawn daily, and the lines always shifting. At that point though, you were already there, so why stop now? Right?
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: feyeleanor on May 23, 2014, 01:21:29 PM
This is also true - not specifically of Rathgar, but of anyone. So how can we create more interaction?

There are many gamey ways of forcing it - like forcing that you deliver a declaration of war before you can attack a settlement - but that doesn't quite cut it. It would prevent raids and real, intentionally unannounced attacks.

Maybe we could enforce interaction when someone takes control of a settlement? It could be easy, like the creation of a conversation between taker and owner (and everyone opposing or supporting auto-joining it). That way, even if the attacker doesn't speak up, the defender can initiate the interaction. Would that help?


That would certainly be interesting.


I think takeover's should take substantially longer for OOC reasons: as a working mother I find the BM cycle of 3-5 days much easier to work with, and that's despite working at home to my own schedule. Having a game where two days missed could result in your whole position being lost is a great way to make M&F for hardcore fanboys only.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tom on May 23, 2014, 01:32:04 PM
Note that I had no idea of the Alumaani raiding - so there IS no coordination. Also note that I am not raiding FI due to the FI raid against the Northmanni. I am raiding the FI because I do not want to raid EI, Ascalon or any newer realms. I thought that FI would be able to stomach being _temporarily_ raided by a force consisting of less than 10% not of my clan but of my own troops.

Did you being with a roleplay that let people know that this is a short raid and not an invasion? Something perfectly IC along the lines of "we laught at you weaklings, we will take your wine and your women and then go back home to celebrate and be declared heroes, see if you can stop us!".
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 23, 2014, 01:36:00 PM

That would certainly be interesting.


I think takeover's should take substantially longer for OOC reasons: as a working mother I find the BM cycle of 3-5 days much easier to work with, and that's despite working at home to my own schedule. Having a game where two days missed could result in your whole position being lost is a great way to make M&F for hardcore fanboys only.


Takeovers are long if troops are present. The real problem is having enough militia and defence to make that count, otherwise they just attack the troops and cut down the TO time. I am hoping that the now that soldiers require food this will be more doable. Militia correctly proportioned to the size of the settlement should mean that a relative force needs to be used, least they risk starvation.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tom on May 23, 2014, 01:57:05 PM
@Tom: of my clan, less than 10% are involved in the raid in FI. The rest is balefully staring across the borders within Ratghar. I think this qualifies as 'primarily absored in internal conflict'. We are also holding a Thing right now, which disallows active warfare during its duration.

So UN all over again. I hope there's at least one clan at the Thing who plans to ambush all the ambassadors just to show them how disgusting, soft and southernish they think all this stupid talk thing is.

No, looking at each other sternly I don't count as conflict.

Let's leave it at that, it's not moving us forward.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 23, 2014, 02:04:05 PM
Hah no wonder poor Ironwood is having such food issues, 149 entourage on a character with 18 men?
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tom on May 23, 2014, 02:09:29 PM
but sending 10% of my forces to a realm that did seem to not have suffered any internal warfare, is one year old, was _asking_ for more action both qualifies as 'laying low' and 'content creation'. I am truly and honestly very negatively surprised at this reaction.

Maybe that reaction should tell you something. You are absolutely correct on the facts, no doubt. FI, even divided now as it is, can certainly handle that raider group.

So why the reaction? Because the perception of people is different. So far, with the two raids into EI, the expectation of everyone in the game pretty much is that if you spot Rathgar invaders, there's a 2k army from half a dozen clans close behind.


What can we do? I'm not sure. I think actions speak louder than words. You could run a bunch of really small raids - I mean 3-5 people with a total of less than 200 soldiers - into a dozen realms, including the newbie ones you don't want to hurt. And most importantly: No major invasions at the same time. Let people see and experience that a raider group doesn't mean all of Rathgar is gangbanging them.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tom on May 23, 2014, 02:10:42 PM
Apparently Tom has declared war on me for that, would be nice if diplomatic relations messaged the recipient at all.

They don't due to the spam potential - I could declare war-peace-war-peace with a script 500 times in an hour and flood your messages. As soon as I figured out how to prevent that, I'll add it.

Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 23, 2014, 02:11:40 PM
They don't due to the spam potential - I could declare war-peace-war-peace with a script 500 times in an hour and flood your messages. As soon as I figured out how to prevent that, I'll add it.


We can do the same with the basic message system right now though if we really wanted to spam people. It would be annoying but its not like we can't report it.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tom on May 23, 2014, 02:13:04 PM
I think takeover's should take substantially longer

They depend a lot on your militia. If you have a solid amount of troops (not just 5 guys, but, say, 20 or so for a town of 1000) then taking control will take maybe two days real-time.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Alumaani on May 23, 2014, 02:29:27 PM
My raiding force hasn't even landed but Aeslin Alumaani is present, he is a casualty of the Alumaanis defeat against North Spear and lost both of his brothers during the conflict, one dead, one abdicated and left.  He traveled to the isles in shame and swore fealty to Lord Andrew and was instructed to invade Prydhain which he did.  Most of those troops are FI troops which I built alone, across 2 villages in the last couple of weeks...if thats a big force, then you really aren't running your military right, but I would be happy to talk you through how I do it.


@Tom - The reason the Alumaani aren't fighting is because we just lost a shed load of warriors against Tan and they are now under equipped to attack him and only have 1 small neighbour to the north.  They have also suffered from massive starvation with almost EVERY settlement dropping drastically and warriors dying of starvation, buildings being abandoned and workforces disappearing.  Every single trade has been automatically cancelled and has needed to be re-established, so a huge amount of effort and work is being put in every day to try to cope with your implementation of food code.  You obviously don't see it but I log in every day, multiple times and have spent hours trying to juggle this, so I am very sorry if I haven't had time to jump across the border and sacrifice my remaining, half starved forces.


@ Velrun - We have laid low for a week or 2 so I am not sure what you want, do your really mean, can you please not attack me?  You are facing no more than 200 warriors I think (Mine were only 50 that I will now turn around and I didnt realise Tan was sailing also), De-Legro alone could defeat that and if you play the game intuitively and creatively then it can be really quite fun.  If it was me, I would have taken the opportunity to welcome them, point out the richest pickings (My enemy) and let them know they can re-supply in my base (They'll need somewhere as they've sailed many miles).  Lets get out of this Rathgar bashing mindset and actually engage with us as players, were actually ok if you stop complaining enough to converse.










Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Velrun on May 23, 2014, 02:39:46 PM
My raiding force hasn't even landed but Aeslin Alumaani is present, he is a casualty of the Alumaanis defeat against North Spear and lost both of his brothers during the conflict, one dead, one abdicated and left.  He traveled to the isles in shame and swore fealty to Lord Andrew and was instructed to invade Prydhain which he did.  Most of those troops are FI troops which I built alone, across 2 villages in the last couple of weeks...if thats a big force, then you really aren't running your military right, but I would be happy to talk you through how I do it.


@Tom - The reason the Alumaani aren't fighting is because we just lost a shed load of warriors against Tan and they are now under equipped to attack him and only have 1 small neighbour to the north.  They have also suffered from massive starvation with almost EVERY settlement dropping drastically and warriors dying of starvation, buildings being abandoned and workforces disappearing.  Every single trade has been automatically cancelled and has needed to be re-established, so a huge amount of effort and work is being put in every day to try to cope with your implementation of food code.  You obviously don't see it but I log in every day, multiple times and have spent hours trying to juggle this, so I am very sorry if I haven't had time to jump across the border and sacrifice my remaining, half starved forces.


@ Velrun - We have laid low for a week or 2 so I am not sure what you want, do your really mean, can you please not attack me?  You are facing no more than 200 warriors I think (Mine were only 50 that I will now turn around and I didnt realise Tan was sailing also), De-Legro alone could defeat that and if you play the game intuitively and creatively then it can be really quite fun.  If it was me, I would have taken the opportunity to welcome them, point out the richest pickings (My enemy) and let them know they can re-supply in my base (They'll need somewhere as they've sailed many miles).  Lets get out of this Rathgar bashing mindset and actually engage with us as players, were actually ok if you stop complaining enough to converse.

Why would I set them upon an enemy that is already struggling to hold us back? Have you bothered to look at how many settlements Red Forest has lost? How would it help their retention to add further troops the assault. Hell De-Legro never even committed the full extent of his own forces to that war because he knew they wouldn't stand up against it. If you refer to Pyrhdain, again at the moment they are already having trouble coordinating and defending against the troops there, again what would be the point to add further pain to the conflict.

With regards to waiting a few weeks, obviously your sense of time is different to my own. Rathgar split up around the 18th of this month (Aussie Time), that is only five days ago. Perhaps you meant in game weeks.

@Velrun:

There is still no suggestion on what to do in the current situation....and forgive me, but sending 10% of my forces to a realm that did seem to not have suffered any internal warfare, is one year old, was _asking_ for more action both qualifies as 'laying low' and 'content creation'. I am truly and honestly very negatively surprised at this reaction.

So if you are going to make decisions based on OOC information on these forums, why not make some OOC inquires to those you plan to affect. Sure you raiding force would be of little concern for FI, if the whole place wasn't already turning into a battlefield. You have been told that your clan alone has more troops then all of FI, how did you think a "mere" 10% at a time where FI is not even close to its strongest wasn't going to be a significant amount.

How many times are the northern clans going to throw their hands up and make the rest of the game world find solutions for there missteps? The whole point of splitting up Rathgar was as I understood it to aid in creating some internal conflict, yet again though we have nothing but Rathgar looking outwards for targets.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: feyeleanor on May 23, 2014, 03:04:16 PM
My raiding force hasn't even landed but Aeslin Alumaani is present, he is a casualty of the Alumaanis defeat against North Spear and lost both of his brothers during the conflict, one dead, one abdicated and left.  He traveled to the isles in shame and swore fealty to Lord Andrew and was instructed to invade Prydhain which he did.  Most of those troops are FI troops which I built alone, across 2 villages in the last couple of weeks...if thats a big force, then you really aren't running your military right, but I would be happy to talk you through how I do it.


The light infantry mean nothing. It's the 88 medium infantry I'm surprised at. I'm assuming the Lord concerned didn't put up much in the way of resistance before surrendering and handing over half his army?


Pity, the light infantry I gave him would have put up a reasonable fight - at least long enough for my regular troops to have waded in for a second battle.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tan dSerrai on May 23, 2014, 03:09:09 PM
Maybe that reaction should tell you something. You are absolutely correct on the facts, no doubt. FI, even divided now as it is, can certainly handle that raider group.

So why the reaction? Because the perception of people is different. So far, with the two raids into EI, the expectation of everyone in the game pretty much is that if you spot Rathgar invaders, there's a 2k army from half a dozen clans close behind.


What can we do? I'm not sure. I think actions speak louder than words. You could run a bunch of really small raids - I mean 3-5 people with a total of less than 200 soldiers - into a dozen realms, including the newbie ones you don't want to hurt. And most importantly: No major invasions at the same time. Let people see and experience that a raider group doesn't mean all of Rathgar is gangbanging them.

Those are good suggestions. I will gladly do that - still, I would also ask that others work on their perception as well. If every rathgari noble results in a 'omg, there'll be 2000 1 day behind him', no matter what we do it will always result in ooc complaints.

And regarding conflict: If you only consider a massive drop in troops to be conflict, then aye, Rathgar is peaceful as a kitten right now. However, that is very emphatically not true. Also note that I would gladly ooc donate 25%-50% of my troops to other realms to aid them in catching up...but I'd rather not simply waste them in something I'd consider ooc staged fight. or not fitting to my chars ambitions. I'll also gladly declare to only send 10% or maybe 5% of my troops outside Ratghar.


Lastly: It may be necessary to give additional guidelines to Rathgar (and no, 'go fight to lose your troops or waste them in any other endeavour is not sufficient)....say 'keep 80/90/95% of your troops inside your territory, do what you want otherwise for 2 RL months. This allows some interaction while giving all other realms the security that there is no juggernaught around the corner....and if they _know_ about such a self imposed rule we might be able to keep this a bit more reasonable.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tan dSerrai on May 23, 2014, 03:11:10 PM
Lastly:

Still waiting for any ooc suggestion on how to have my chars act on the FI. Again, you could near freely choose what they should do, just please make it even remotely interesting. If I do not hear anything I'll simply have them leave - but I as player would be massively disgusted.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 23, 2014, 03:17:21 PM
Lastly:

Still waiting for any ooc suggestion on how to have my chars act on the FI. Again, you could near freely choose what they should do, just please make it even remotely interesting. If I do not hear anything I'll simply have them leave - but I as player would be massively disgusted.


Hmm I have IC messaged Sonova Van Valen, the only member of the raider force I have contact with. No real need for OOC resolutions. Poor Velrun isn't even in the vicinity so he will just have to defer to me. Then again I supposedly AM the ruler, be nice to be deferred to once and a while.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tan dSerrai on May 23, 2014, 03:26:00 PM
Sorry, by now I think there is a lot of need for ooc communication....mainly so that others know about (at least my part of) the raiding force to be quite willing to play along.

Consider anything you suggest to be 'read by the crows flight' by my char. He has turned quite thorougly superstitious suddenly, so crows work fine.

If you talk to Sonova IC, that char talks to mine, mine act, that is percieved, then communicated to others - then players would probably be in ooc panic or frustration for the next 4 RL days, if not longer....and I'd like to avoid that. Note that some IC panic to some dour northmen turning up is quite allright though.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Alumaani on May 23, 2014, 03:27:02 PM
Why would I set them upon an enemy that is already struggling to hold us back? Have you bothered to look at how many settlements Red Forest has lost? How would it help their retention to add further troops the assault. Hell De-Legro never even committed the full extent of his own forces to that war because he knew they wouldn't stand up against it. If you refer to Pyrhdain, again at the moment they are already having trouble coordinating and defending against the troops there, again what would be the point to add further pain to the conflict.


With regards to waiting a few weeks, obviously your sense of time is different to my own. Rathgar split up around the 18th of this month (Aussie Time), that is only five days ago. Perhaps you meant in game weeks.


Why would I BOTHER to check on one of your duchies?  You seem to have an extremely insular point of view here, it's not my responsibility to check on the political situation within a realm I am going to raid for gold.  I don't care how many of your villages are fighting with each other as long as the fighting is taking place away from my troop landings where I can be in and out quickly.  You are pissing your pants over 50 warriors, get a grip.

So if you are going to make decisions based on OOC information on these forums, why not make some OOC inquires to those you plan to affect. Sure you raiding force would be of little concern for FI, if the whole place wasn't already turning into a battlefield. You have been told that your clan alone has more troops then all of FI, how did you think a "mere" 10% at a time where FI is not even close to its strongest wasn't going to be a significant amount.

How many times are the northern clans going to throw their hands up and make the rest of the game world find solutions for there missteps? The whole point of splitting up Rathgar was as I understood it to aid in creating some internal conflict, yet again though we have nothing but Rathgar looking outwards for targets.



Mis-steps?  What are you talking about?  Are you seriously implying that I should check in with EVERY player I come across to find out if they will throw a hissy fit like the one you are creating?  The drop in active players is as much down to people like you as anyone else, it's self perpetuating and really pissing me off.  Lets just be clear again on the 'Crimes' of Rathgar players:

1 We played as a realm and carried out raids in the south, stopping outside of the walls of their main city and retreated.  Id be interested to know total troops losses on both sides because I bet they weren't big...Tom?  No villages held.

2 D'Serrai/Skloddings and Beals Song fought against The Alumaani/Clan Skies/Clan Stonedman/D'Hara AND Erstes Imperium and won.  Once everyone surrendered they took small tributes, made a couple of alliances and retreated.  No villages held.

3 A small fleet of ships have landed on FI shores carrying no more than a couple of hundred warriors intent on raiding.

Can someone please tell me where the big bad players of Rathgar are ruining your game?



No decisions have been made to attack FI based upon forum discussions, from an IG perspective its simple...Rathgar has plundered most of the lands around it, some of the clans (2 I think) are sending out small units to raid and the isles look pretty fruitful.  That's it, no big crossover of Forum and IG strategy, no Machiavellian intent, simply something to do.  Im starting to realise that no matter what we do we are going to have this reaction so guess what, Im just playing my game my way.


FYI The Alumaani have not been engaged in conflict for many weeks PRIOR to the split, that is where you are making your mistake on timing.  You are taking the split of Rathgar as the end of hostilities which is not the case.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: feyeleanor on May 23, 2014, 03:30:29 PM
They depend a lot on your militia. If you have a solid amount of troops (not just 5 guys, but, say, 20 or so for a town of 1000) then taking control will take maybe two days real-time.


Perhaps halt the progress of taking control when there's a battle initiated? Or does the game already do this?
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: feyeleanor on May 23, 2014, 03:32:01 PM
Lastly:

Still waiting for any ooc suggestion on how to have my chars act on the FI. Again, you could near freely choose what they should do, just please make it even remotely interesting. If I do not hear anything I'll simply have them leave - but I as player would be massively disgusted.


The FI's in a civil war, so why not look for alternative employers/targets than just Grand Fate/Iuna/Prydhain/Red Forest/etc? Both sides using Rathgar mercenaries could make for an interesting war for all concerned.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Alumaani on May 23, 2014, 03:39:18 PM
Fey, thats exactly the kind of thinking I mean.  Why not make them an offer?  They lust for battle and wealth, nothing else really so appeal to their spirits, Im confident that all Rathgar players would adapt to simply make the game more interesting for everyone one!  ;D
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Valast on May 23, 2014, 04:16:03 PM
READ THIS FOR FACTS/INFO:  Well... this escalated quickly.

Look guys.  I am the player who set this raid in motion.  I did it what? last week? Two weeks? The war was taking place in Rathgar at the time and I was not getting too involved in it due to IC situations.  So the head of Valinor said to one other realm "hey lets march south, raid as we go, then go hit the islands we have heard rumor of."

SO...we set out marching.  I had no idea that D'hara lands were the ones we raided first... to be honest I never looked because my character did not care.  As a player, I went to the opposite side of EI than the rest of Rathgar did (by this time the war in Rathgar was done and some were marching against the East side of EI).

I had meaningful contact with D'hara, one of them was even captured and became a knight of my family.  Then the EI ooc explosion happened again.  ALL of Rathgar was blamed.  So again I back off (I say again because the last war I marched all the way south only to have the same thing happen).  Half my army starved as I marched them down to set sail for the islands.

After letting the soldiers get rested, a couple other nobles from other houses I had contact with figured they would join me.  So we left.  Again I never looked at the political situation because my character does not care.  Instead we sailed over and now we are looting.

We have taken no settlements... only fight a battle and loot the village.  Thats it.

As for messages to them, I had no contacts.  Keep in mind that some times I have to do my day job... family life... chores... so I can not always put in an RP message but instead only have a few min. to make some game actions.  But when the chance came up, I did send a message from Sonofa.

 "by Sonova Van Valen (http://mightandfealty.com/en/character/view/303) on 2-6-2 (May 23, 2014 07:07)   Greetings from my Uncle John Van Valen (http://mightandfealty.com/en/character/view/186),
He bids you greetings and wishes long life to you and the spear leaders of the Fading Isles (http://mightandfealty.com/en/realm/3/view)
We shall only be among you or a while.  Endure it.  Embrace it.  We are the North and tho is our raid.  And then perhaps we will be gone.
Tell us of your world...offer us a place for our Gods to live here among you...and perhaps we can be selective in our raiding.
Pass this news to your ruler if you would be so kind."


In that message I made it clear who we were...the tone indicates we are easy to talk to...that we are not planning to stay...that we are raiding...that there are options for selective targeting...and a hook to draw in the character to communicate in culture exchange.
It is NOT my fault as a player if that message takes time to get around.  It is not my fault if a player leaves the game... It is not my fault that the political situation was unknown to the rest of the world... it is not my fault people are so scared of Rathgar that they cry about it instead of playing the game.
EVERYONE I have talked to in rathgar wants the game to be successful and fun for everyone.  We talk about things like that to make sure we do not go too far.  In this raid I made it clear to anyone involve that we are NOT making this an organized raid.  We are just sailing over, raiding where ever we choose and moving on to the next location.  Not taking settlements, just raiding for wealth and having battles.


I am the player who has a character that is the ruler of Valinor.  I started playing half way through the guided start.  I had 400 soldiers at the time we started moving south... about half died in battle or starvation.  I am not some huge monster of Rathgar...



BUT I WILL use that fear of Rathgar IC to my advantage.  That is part of the game and no matter how much people bitch and whine about it... I am playing the game fair and square.  Giving those I come across, chances to interact and play with me.


I keep hearing people getting pissed off at RATHGAR.  Cut that shit out.  Get pissed off at individuals and leave me the fuck out of it.  I am doing nothing wrong and everything right and still trying to be a good player ooc.  I am trying to include everyone and back down when told to do so (even if I am not the damn problem)...  Yet because narrow minded people perceieve that Rathgar is this huge ooc monster united to do its worst on everyone, I have to curb my own game play.


This is stupid... I do not know if others in Rathgar chat and plan the worlds down fall... I DO KNOW that not EVERYONE does because I sure have not been invited to do anything like that.  I am playing a raiding, waring, barbariclly honorable people.  Deal with it.


I will not stop this raid.  we are only looting wealth and fighting battles.  We are not choosing targets based off of anything but our whim and will.  If you want us gone then find a way to do it IC and quit crying.


I am sorry if a player leaves... but if he can not handle loss then he should not play games.  If he wants to RP, great...but I dont know who he is or have any reason to talk to him until met IC.  I want this game to grow and be successful... but you are going to have to let this rathgar fear play out.  It is crumbling from the inside but EVERYONE needs to let it play out.
If you could see the Thing... you would know that no one can get along or agree on anything.  The whole thing is a powder keg ready to blow.  It will blow... but LET IT PLAY THE FUCK OUT.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Alumaani on May 23, 2014, 07:41:49 PM
Well said...seconded.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: feyeleanor on May 23, 2014, 07:54:05 PM
As for messages to them, I had no contacts.  Keep in mind that some times I have to do my day job... family life... chores... so I can not always put in an RP message but instead only have a few min. to make some game actions.


This is worth reiterating because it's likely to be true of many players as the game grows, and if the design doesn't allow for this then only hardcore Travian-style players are likely to stick around.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tom on May 23, 2014, 09:01:04 PM
Still waiting for any ooc suggestion on how to have my chars act on the FI. Again, you could near freely choose what they should do, just please make it even remotely interesting. If I do not hear anything I'll simply have them leave - but I as player would be massively disgusted.

There's a lot of conflict in FI right now. You could ask both sides what they would be paying you for beating up the other guys. Or you could ask the High King what he'd pay for you beating the rebels into submission. He'll probably tell you to take a bath. In the ocean. And drown, but it could be a fun interaction, especially if you go visit him because setting foot on Retreat is forbidden and the penalty is death. :-)
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tom on May 23, 2014, 09:02:30 PM
Perhaps halt the progress of taking control when there's a battle initiated? Or does the game already do this?

Not yet, but it's on the TODO list.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tom on May 23, 2014, 09:04:37 PM
This is worth reiterating because it's likely to be true of many players as the game grows, and if the design doesn't allow for this then only hardcore Travian-style players are likely to stick around.

I'm thinking of options to make this easier.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Stonedman on May 24, 2014, 05:18:27 AM
 FI Raid the North.
The North raids FI.
All seems fair to me.
Quote
If you could see the Thing... you would know that no one can get along or agree on anything.  The whole thing is a powder keg ready to blow.  It will blow... but LET IT PLAY THE FUCK OUT.
Quote


Love this comment, totally agree. But no-one cares, all they want is to tell us to do stuff by their own schedule for their own "vision" of how we should play our own game. Even telling us we should not hold a Thing in the way we want to and someone should go rogue and attack everyone else, betraying our "honourable barbarian" culture. Butt out will you. This is our culture, our traditions.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on May 24, 2014, 06:15:02 AM
FI Raid the North.
The North raids FI.
All seems fair to me.

A. We were no longer FI when the attacks started.

B. If you want to attack the part of FI that raided you, attack Red Forrest and the main island. They sent the troops, not us.

C. Raiding isn't what is bothering me, it's the fact that you're starving us with entourage, which is something we cannot kill unless we manage to capture the raiders and want to execute them.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Valast on May 24, 2014, 06:38:30 AM
You are no longer FI...just as we are no longer Rathgar.  Guess that guilt by association is a two way street.

But that is not why I am raiding.  I am raisin because your islands look plump and ripe with wealth!

As for starvation, fight us and send us packing then.  You do not have the might of Rathgar on your back...just some raiders from the north.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on May 24, 2014, 09:52:33 AM
You are no longer FI...just as we are no longer Rathgar.  Guess that guilt by association is a two way street.

But that is not why I am raiding.  I am raisin because your islands look plump and ripe with wealth!

As for starvation, fight us and send us packing then.  You do not have the might of Rathgar on your back...just some raiders from the north.

It is not your troops that are starving us though, it is your entourage. And I would hardly call Hawks "ripe with wealth". The main island has much more to offer in that regard and Iuna is a trading hub... our island on the other hand is half starving. You won't get much here except the deaths of your own soldiers.

So enjoy it. :3
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: feyeleanor on May 24, 2014, 10:39:18 AM
A. We were no longer FI when the attacks started.

B. If you want to attack the part of FI that raided you, attack Red Forrest and the main island. They sent the troops, not us.

C. Raiding isn't what is bothering me, it's the fact that you're starving us with entourage, which is something we cannot kill unless we manage to capture the raiders and want to execute them.


A. Yes, it was still FI when the raid occurred;
B. No, Red Forrest didn't have any involvement, and yes raiding Prydhain makes perfect sense;
C. Don't tell your enemies how they ought to build their armies - that's their decision to make.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: feyeleanor on May 24, 2014, 10:40:27 AM
You are no longer FI...just as we are no longer Rathgar.  Guess that guilt by association is a two way street.

But that is not why I am raiding.  I am raisin because your islands look plump and ripe with wealth!

As for starvation, fight us and send us packing then.  You do not have the might of Rathgar on your back...just some raiders from the north.


Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Iituem on May 24, 2014, 12:26:22 PM

A. Yes, it was still FI when the raid occurred;
B. No, Red Forrest didn't have any involvement, and yes raiding Prydhain makes perfect sense;
C. Don't tell your enemies how they ought to build their armies - that's their decision to make.


C.  I believe the current statement from Tom is that entourage do not consume food.  Presumably they're travelling light enough they bring their own?
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 24, 2014, 01:17:17 PM

C.  I believe the current statement from Tom is that entourage do not consume food.  Presumably they're travelling light enough they bring their own?

Which explains why the settlements weren't dropping nearly as fast as they should. Besides what would we prefer, 300 odd entourage or 300 more troops. Velrun jumped the gun thinking the increase in consumption he could see was due to troops, and this we end up with this mess.

Update for those that care. The North Spear have looted a few settlements. At least one player is annoyed that militia plus troops plus palisade didn't prevent looting but really the only looting that works is wealth, so no great loss other then to his pride. So far as I know the raiders have been engaged in battle twice, both as victories for the Hawks, and the largest single body of troops we know of has been cut down to size in one of those battles. Now if only more people were calling out when they are spotted near a settlement the hunting troops could do a better job of brining battle to them. I think the raider have killed some militia, or at least I have spied battles in locations were I am not aware of players being.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Stonedman on May 24, 2014, 01:55:10 PM
co-ordinated defense is what you need :)
Rally the troops, muster your forces, work as a team to repel the invaders :)
In some ways raids like this are actually good for new realms which have not experienced battles, it will teach them how to co-operate and work together towards a common goal. Can also help to bring together former adversaries.


I have a logistical question.
If people raid an island. In order to get there they need to embark at docks right?
So how do they get off the island afterwards ? what if the people they were raiding don't give them permissions to embark at docks?
The raiders would be isolated with no means of retreat unless they can capture a port??
Stoned
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 24, 2014, 02:05:25 PM
co-ordinated defense is what you need :)
Rally the troops, muster your forces, work as a team to repel the invaders :)
In some ways raids like this are actually good for new realms which have not experienced battles, it will teach them how to co-operate and work together towards a common goal. Can also help to bring together former adversaries.


I have a logistical question.
If people raid an island. In order to get there they need to embark at docks right?
So how do they get off the island afterwards ? what if the people they were raiding don't give them permissions to embark at docks?
The raiders would be isolated with no means of retreat unless they can capture a port??
Stoned

You can return to your ship and rembark within 30 days of landing.

Of course a coordinated defense is needed. Is that suppose to be some gem of wisdom? Since we have already committed forces to other battle fronts we are a bit short of nobles in the area so we can't just sit characters in settlements waiting to see if anyone approaches. Those nobles that are there are doing well within the confines of their individual activity levels. A third raider has been located now and a battle initated, a second battle progresses against one of those already fought, and the third decided that true Northern Valour calls for evading the battle and running away. I don't expect some miraculous zero loss defence, the guys in the up there seem to be doing fine with the 2nd class troops that were left in the area.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Alumaani on May 24, 2014, 02:15:49 PM
Sounds good!  Oh and on Northern Valour, we enjoy combat, fair and not so far but we aren't stupid and if we are outnumbered then we will evade, I presume you outnumber the raiding party?  If not then publicise their lack of courage, probably the worst thing for a Northern Warrior is to be shown as a coward IMO, especially to his peers :)
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 24, 2014, 02:23:14 PM
Sounds good!  Oh and on Northern Valour, we enjoy combat, fair and not so far but we aren't stupid and if we are outnumbered then we will evade, I presume you outnumber the raiding party?  If not then publicise their lack of courage, probably the worst thing for a Northern Warrior is to be shown as a coward IMO, especially to his peers :)

There is no bravery in a fair fight. Valour is facing down odds stacked against you, fair fights are just a gamble. You don't read heroic fiction about a hero meeting the evil enemy with a force equal to their own now do you. I accept a difference when there is an overwhelming disparity but other wise I would suggest North Men are less about courage and valour, and more about pragmatism.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 24, 2014, 02:42:29 PM
Ahh and now the plot thickens. Yet another raider located, but this time accompanied by a known agitator from the south whom also has no business being in the area. What ever link do they have, is it a mere coincidence to find them both just wandering around outside of any settlements.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on May 24, 2014, 10:25:19 PM

A. Yes, it was still FI when the raid occurred;
B. No, Red Forrest didn't have any involvement, and yes raiding Prydhain makes perfect sense;
C. Don't tell your enemies how they ought to build their armies - that's their decision to make.

A. No, I mean the current raids on Hawks, which occurred well after we left FI.
B. YES, they did. Want to know how I know this? White Company planned their entire attack to take advantage of the very fact that the leader of Red Forrest was away from home to attack Rathgar.
C. Your entourage isn't an army. They're unable to be attacked directly, and even if we were to engage you in battle, none of them would be killed and gotten rid of unless we managed to kill your character. And yes, entourage do take up food. I know this because I've disbanded entourage and seen a marked decrease in the amount of food consumed in a settlement.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 24, 2014, 11:38:08 PM
A. No, I mean the current raids on Hawks, which occurred well after we left FI.
B. YES, they did. Want to know how I know this? White Company planned their entire attack to take advantage of the very fact that the leader of Red Forrest was away from home to attack Rathgar.
C. Your entourage isn't an army. They're unable to be attacked directly, and even if we were to engage you in battle, none of them would be killed and gotten rid of unless we managed to kill your character. And yes, entourage do take up food. I know this because I've disbanded entourage and seen a marked decrease in the amount of food consumed in a settlement.

My understanding is it was a display bug, the same or similar to the bug that showed dead troops increasing food consumption. I too noticed it and cut back my character entourages, seems that was not actually necessary.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Roran Hawkins on May 24, 2014, 11:46:52 PM
Retinues consume food. I have tested it with my characters, and they do consume food. Hence I cut down all my retinues significantly.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 24, 2014, 11:50:34 PM
Retinues consume food. I have tested it with my characters, and they do consume food. Hence I cut down all my retinues significantly.

Did they actually consume food, or did you base it off the settlement resource details? Re-reading Toms post I think he meant dead entourage do not consume food, which makes fair more sense to me.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 25, 2014, 12:00:22 AM
More and more updates :) currently we track four raider, three of whom are in battles. The Order has taken over one of our Northern settlements, which was certainly unexpected. I think here is one raider so far unaccounted for.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tom on May 25, 2014, 12:35:08 AM
Entourage consumes food. The bug was that DEAD entourage (and soldiers) did.

The update I just sent live fixes the "starved by entourage" problem. Entourage can now be killed in battle.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Alumaani on May 25, 2014, 09:35:41 AM
@De Legro - You might be right The Northmen are all mighty Pragmatists!  Doesn't have the same ring to it though  :D
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 25, 2014, 09:49:46 AM
@De Legro - You might be right The Northmen are all mighty Pragmatists!  Doesn't have the same ring to it though  :D

Sensible though. Few more battles complete, few more Northmen dead and a few more ships spotted off the coast line. Unfortunately we haven't managed to capture anyone yet.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Alumaani on May 25, 2014, 09:55:57 AM
I just posted elsewhere but in the last 30 or so battles and with overwhelming odds, I have yet to kill or capture a first one.  I fought 14 battles with a single first one against 2 of my own and several hundred men in a village...couldn't catch or kill him!  Think it needs looking at?
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 25, 2014, 10:28:35 AM
I just posted elsewhere but in the last 30 or so battles and with overwhelming odds, I have yet to kill or capture a first one.  I fought 14 battles with a single first one against 2 of my own and several hundred men in a village...couldn't catch or kill him!  Think it needs looking at?

Not really. I've had better results using fewer troops. Three or four characters and thirty to forty troops total seems to work okay. I also don't use archers for capture work, can't say they affect things but it feels like they do.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tom on May 25, 2014, 11:13:26 AM
I just posted elsewhere but in the last 30 or so battles and with overwhelming odds, I have yet to kill or capture a first one.  I fought 14 battles with a single first one against 2 of my own and several hundred men in a village...couldn't catch or kill him!  Think it needs looking at?

Yes, it does. I've reduced casualties rate some time ago, but I've not yet upped capture rates to compensate (they are linked, don't ask why).

Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: feyeleanor on May 25, 2014, 08:35:33 PM
B. YES, they did. Want to know how I know this? White Company planned their entire attack to take advantage of the very fact that the leader of Red Forrest was away from home to attack Rathgar.
C. Your entourage isn't an army. They're unable to be attacked directly, and even if we were to engage you in battle, none of them would be killed and gotten rid of unless we managed to kill your character. And yes, entourage do take up food. I know this because I've disbanded entourage and seen a marked decrease in the amount of food consumed in a settlement.


B. No one from Red Forrest was involved in the raids on northern Rathgar: I should know as I organised the raids and along with one other player did all the fighting.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 26, 2014, 12:10:00 AM

B. No one from Red Forrest was involved in the raids on northern Rathgar: I should know as I organised the raids and along with one other player did all the fighting.


This is true, One of their Baronesses left for the raid but never got to the battlefront before turning around to come to the defence of Red Forest. However I don't think she was ever really integrated into the raid Pryhdain led.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on May 26, 2014, 04:05:46 AM
And great, Rathgar (and that "there's no Rathgar" bullshit is getting old. I can still see it on the map, and since the noble who I will now be complaining about is in the Order, which is a realm still connected to Rathgar, I will refer to it as such) is now starting to take over regions in the Hawks. Oh, I'm sorry, was it too much to ask them to busy themselves with internal conflict for a while? You know, right after they get warned about making large external attacks, what do they go about doing? Making more, apparently.

Oh, I know, you're only using "small" raiding forces. You suffer under the illusion that they are small, because you are so used to the scale that all the other ex-Rathgar clans use in their militaries. In actuality they are the size of a large portion of our own forces. If you would so kindly fight each other for a short while, then you would lose enough troops that your armed forces would be more on equal footing.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 26, 2014, 04:18:18 AM
And great, Rathgar (and that "there's no Rathgar" bullshit is getting old. I can still see it on the map, and since the noble who I will now be complaining about is in the Order, which is a realm still connected to Rathgar, I will refer to it as such) is now starting to take over regions in the Hawks. Oh, I'm sorry, was it too much to ask them to busy themselves with internal conflict for a while? You know, right after they get warned about making large external attacks, what do they go about doing? Making more, apparently.

Oh, I know, you're only using "small" raiding forces. You suffer under the illusion that they are small, because you are so used to the scale that all the other ex-Rathgar clans use in their militaries. In actuality they are the size of a large portion of our own forces. If you would so kindly fight each other for a short while, then you would lose enough troops that your armed forces would be more on equal footing.


Since I am one of the players actively fighting them, the forces were reasonably small. Most characters had 20-30 troops, mostly medium troops with some heavy. One character had 75 and had a smattering of cavalry and another had about 50 I think. A single protectorate (barony) of the Hawks has fought the majority of battles and is doing extremely well from what I can see. Now to be fair, that protectorate is the oldest in Hawks and has by far the best land, but still we are holding our own while not diverting too much strength from other conflicts. This has been helped by the fact that the raiders did not fight as a unified force, they dispersed to raid at their leisure. I can't say if they did this intentionally to limit their own strength, or they had another purpose in mind but it certainly made it easier for us to bring superior numbers to every battle.


Rathgar does still exist yes, It contains the Order and Beal's Song. My understanding is that it will persist and contain only The Order as the unifying culture thing. North Spear is also listed, but contains no settlements, I think it is mostly full of inactive characters.


The single noble taking land for the Order was actually a noble of D'Hara that was captured in the conflict they had. Where his troops come from I can't say, but he has been cornered and engaged in battle. I think that means that battle has been initiated against every single raider on the island, and I'm not aware of a battle we have yet lost. Whenever the player of  Sonova Van Valen has the time again there was also a nice RP going that had some very interesting potential.

EDIT

I downplayed the contributions of the Hawkwood family and their Protectorate. They are the only members of Hawks to have captured a raider so far and have defended the west of the realm extremely well.


Also to get an idea of relative scales, I donated more troops to the White Company to get them started within Hawks then the raiders have brought with them.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Stonedman on May 26, 2014, 04:43:51 AM
Yawn, oh sorry was gustav saying something ?
I kinda dozed off as it just sounded like the same old lullaby he's been saying for a while now. big bad rathgar has to fight itself because he wants us to.
oh right... let me get to it !
who shall i attack first... hmmmm
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on May 26, 2014, 05:25:12 AM
Yawn, oh sorry was gustav saying something ?
I kinda dozed off as it just sounded like the same old lullaby he's been saying for a while now. big bad rathgar has to fight itself because he wants us to.
oh right... let me get to it !
who shall i attack first... hmmmm

Oh I love posts like this. It usually means I hit a sore point and the person is trying to play it off like they aren't bothered...
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tom on May 26, 2014, 08:40:23 AM
Shut up, both of you.

Everyone is aware of the situation, and pouring oil into the fire won't help anyone, will it?
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Mookzen on May 26, 2014, 11:01:53 AM
Considering how the discussion has developed over the past few weeks I think its best to implement a unit cap Starcraft style, and obviously the unit cap has to be around the number of troops Gustav Kuriga here has.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tom on May 26, 2014, 02:01:56 PM
This is the rage zone, but it's not the "flame everyone at will" zone, so further personal attacks with no useful content will be moderated.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: kellaine on May 26, 2014, 10:21:23 PM
What I know is this. those in Valinor have treated me with respect and consideration... even when attacking me.  Enough so that I have had 2 characters join them and one waiting to join.

I believe I will have more fun within "Rathgar" then I had in the Imperium.

If there were a way to join D`hara to Rathgar or Valinor, I would do so.  But alas there is far too much land between us to make it viable.


Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Velrun on May 27, 2014, 01:17:04 AM
Bah, now the raiders apparently complain that we dared to bring superior force against their raiding parties and threaten to land more troops since apparently we where not supposed to try to effectively defend our lands. Apparently we have to play by their rules or face more of this rubbish, which is odd since I though our Ruler did indeed inquire if the raiders had rules for how these things are supposed to play out.


A player apparently complains that we attacked his characters ( I will assume all the Van Valen are controlled by a single player, no real way to know with the way M&F is set up) while he was busy for three days. So apparently now we are supposed to be raided, and then when one of the raiders decides he wants to be AFK we should just hang around and leave his troops with their massive entourages sit around driving our settlements into starvation. I supposed we are at fault though, cause it was completely our decision to start the raid now.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: kellaine on May 27, 2014, 01:22:35 AM
That massive entourage would be far away if you would let him and your settlement would not be starving.  The longer you keep me tied up fighting skirmishes the longer your settlement starves.  why not overwhelm me with your entire force and get total victory. meh, its up to you.  I can do this for days.


Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 27, 2014, 01:25:44 AM
That massive entourage would be far away if you would let him and your settlement would not be starving.  The longer you keep me tied up fighting skirmishes the longer your settlement starves.  why not overwhelm me with your entire force and get total victory. meh, its up to you.  I can do this for days.


Here is a hint, you have a small entourage compared to others in the group. I'm sure you see the insane proposal of focusing on a single noble, when you only kill a handful of entourage for each victory when that leaves several other characters with large entourages to move at will through our lands and potentially increase them further yes?
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Valast on May 27, 2014, 01:26:29 AM
Sorry everyone, I have been gone camping for a couple days for Memorial Day Holliday in United States.  Just now really getting back to connection.

I really am sorry people got so ticked off at this raid.  Three really are only a handful involved.  Most are my family/me.  Which surprises me that we have not been destroyed while I was away.

The takeovers were done by someone, not on anyone's order that I know of but that's life...  Roll with it right?

As for the scouts/others, that WAS part of Valinor raid style to take them when we took a settlement.  Then the second great Rathgar OP explosion took place AND wealth looting was put in the game so I stopped doing it.  Instead I am only looting wealth.  I did not think about the food issue until I read an in game message today.  Of course that in game message is to a captures noble so she is not real inclined to care about te other characters food issues....but as a player I do.

About the time table...my guys marched from the north coast...never paid attention to what is oing on in the islands...they are not going to see a new color on a map and choose to halt out raid.  My characters do not know your realm or FI... We are just raiding some islands and learning as we go.

Anyway.  My main point about all this is that I get to play this game too.  I am from the north so I play a barbarian mix type.  I am going to raid you.  You are going to fight me then wen defeated or ready I will leave.

Meanwhile I have offered chances to buy us off, offered marriage to start an alliance of sorts, offered to march on your enemies... All of this before leaving to camp or today on my return home.  So I would really like people to chill out and stop thinkin the worst.

Just play the game with us.  With me.

If your RP is too rigid to allow for that, then let the raid play out anyway.  RO is not win or loose, it is the story we make.

Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Velrun on May 27, 2014, 01:30:25 AM
Sorry everyone, I have been gone camping for a couple days for Memorial Day Holliday in United States.  Just now really getting back to connection.

I really am sorry people got so ticked off at this raid.  Three really are only a handful involved.  Most are my family/me.  Which surprises me that we have not been destroyed while I was away.

The takeovers were done by someone, not on anyone's order that I know of but that's life...  Roll with it right?

As for the scouts/others, that WAS part of Valinor raid style to take them when we took a settlement.  Then the second great Rathgar OP explosion took place AND wealth looting was put in the game so I stopped doing it.  Instead I am only looting wealth.  I did not think about the food issue until I read an in game message today.  Of course that in game message is to a captures noble so she is not real inclined to care about te other characters food issues....but as a player I do.

About the time table...my guys marched from the north coast...never paid attention to what is oing on in the islands...they are not going to see a new color on a map and choose to halt out raid.  My characters do not know your realm or FI... We are just raiding some islands and learning as we go.

Anyway.  My main point about all this is that I get to play this game too.  I am from the north so I play a barbarian mix type.  I am going to raid you.  You are going to fight me then wen defeated or ready I will leave.

Meanwhile I have offered chances to buy us off, offered marriage to start an alliance of sorts, offered to march on your enemies... All of this before leaving to camp or today on my return home.  So I would really like people to chill out and stop thinkin the worst.

Just play the game with us.  With me.

If your RP is too rigid to allow for that, then let the raid play out anyway.  RO is not win or loose, it is the story we make.

Yes Yes, we accept your "solutions" and story lines or face more of the same. We get it. Or you know you could just admit that every single force that you sent against us has been engaged, most have lost the greater proportion of their forces and do what typically raiders did when a organised defense arrived, and cut your own losses.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Igelfeld on May 27, 2014, 03:15:58 AM
Yes Yes, we accept your "solutions" and story lines or face more of the same. We get it. Or you know you could just admit that every single force that you sent against us has been engaged, most have lost the greater proportion of their forces and do what typically raiders did when a organised defense arrived, and cut your own losses.


Wow, when did this game become so unfriendly? This game has a social aspect to it, in fact I would say its more social than anything else. So when someone shows up try playing WITH them instead of against them, who knows you might enjoy it.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Velrun on May 27, 2014, 03:25:43 AM

Wow, when did this game become so unfriendly? This game has a social aspect to it, in fact I would say its more social than anything else. So when someone shows up try playing WITH them instead of against them, who knows you might enjoy it.

Did we not do that, mustering our forces to repel the invaders. Now apparently because we did not follow their "script" and ally ourselves with them or suggest another target for their raiders we must go through it all again. It is not playing with others if all we are expected to be is actors to another groups story. So far as I can see there is no "give and take" of cooperative RP, there is simply the "way" which we must follow or else.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 27, 2014, 03:49:32 AM
Did we not do that, mustering our forces to repel the invaders. Now apparently because we did not follow their "script" and ally ourselves with them or suggest another target for their raiders we must go through it all again. It is not playing with others if all we are expected to be is actors to another groups story. So far as I can see there is no "give and take" of cooperative RP, there is simply the "way" which we must follow or else.


Either way, we can't dictate to them how they should progress, nor are they dictating to us. They offered options, which my character found unpalatable. I have made offers to them, which I'm sure will be replied to when Valast has time. If a common ground is not found then whatever will happen, happens. My character may have accepted their offers, had their been a enemy to redirect them to that I as a player thought would have been reasonable. Red Forest is but 3 regions left, Pryhdain is besieged, though I know not entirely how things are there. Retreat is Toms playground and also quite small, and I am friendly with my southern neighbour even if they are within the Fading Isles realm.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Valast on May 27, 2014, 04:16:57 AM
Ah I did not know you had no enemies.  It seemed like there was a war going on between the hawks and FI's. 

As for the whining I wa accused of
This is what I said:
"(Ooc haha dirty pool bein played in these parts. The war seems to have raged on despite my being camping for three days and saying so ooc. Such is warlol)(Ooc haha dirty pool bein played in these parts. The war seems to have raged on despite my being camping for three days and saying so ooc. Such is warlol)"

Now I did not whine about the spam attacks... Where you put  a group of characters on one and spam attack them so they can not move.   So that when they wake up they have had a series I battles which the player had little time to join or move others to the defender.  I don't complain because it fits in the game mechanics.  Dirty pool as I see it but like I said, that's war. 

The scouts/others issue I will fix by getting rid of some so that you see I am not an asshat.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 27, 2014, 04:40:13 AM
Ah I did not know you had no enemies.  It seemed like there was a war going on between the hawks and FI's. 

As for the whining I wa accused of
This is what I said:
"(Ooc haha dirty pool bein played in these parts. The war seems to have raged on despite my being camping for three days and saying so ooc. Such is warlol)(Ooc haha dirty pool bein played in these parts. The war seems to have raged on despite my being camping for three days and saying so ooc. Such is warlol)"

Now I did not whine about the spam attacks... Where you put  a group of characters on one and spam attack them so they can not move.   So that when they wake up they have had a series I battles which the player had little time to join or move others to the defender.  I don't complain because it fits in the game mechanics.  Dirty pool as I see it but like I said, that's war. 

The scouts/others issue I will fix by getting rid of some so that you see I am not an asshat.


Well I suppose in theory I am at war with FI, just that viable targets are far and few between. Hawks is part of the new Greater Fade which probably represents the greater part of the old FI military. Its not so much having no enemies, as having no enemies that I in good conscience am going to direct raiding parties at. Red Forest might always surprise me though, the Raude family have two character running around with a reported 200 troops each. Then again I don't as a player want to destroy Red Forest, the war there was supposed to be a simple land grab for the White Company to provide them with some regions for decent troop production, it just sort of became a wider conflict when terms could not be agreed upon.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Valast on May 27, 2014, 05:37:09 AM
Tried to disband the scouts on a character but came up to a blank white screen.  I will try again at work in the morning.

Anyway I will wrap the raid up an send them all back north.  There will be a few battles more I am sure but they are going away.  Mayby thy can get back before all hell breaks loose up there.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 27, 2014, 05:43:34 AM
Tried to disband the scouts on a character but came up to a blank white screen.  I will try again at work in the morning.

Anyway I will wrap the raid up an send them all back north.  There will be a few battles more I am sure but they are going away.  Mayby thy can get back before all hell breaks loose up there.


I have had similar issues with dead scouts and trying to bury them. Could you add the problem to this bug topic


http://bugs.battlemaster.org/view.php?id=8204

Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 27, 2014, 06:46:44 AM

Well I suppose in theory I am at war with FI, just that viable targets are far and few between. Hawks is part of the new Greater Fade which probably represents the greater part of the old FI military. Its not so much having no enemies, as having no enemies that I in good conscience am going to direct raiding parties at. Red Forest might always surprise me though, the Raude family have two character running around with a reported 200 troops each. Then again I don't as a player want to destroy Red Forest, the war there was supposed to be a simple land grab for the White Company to provide them with some regions for decent troop production, it just sort of became a wider conflict when terms could not be agreed upon.


And just like that the situation changes and I find myself regretting turning down the Van Valen offers. Perhaps though it is not too late to reverse things IG :)



Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: kellaine on May 27, 2014, 07:37:41 AM
ya, I was one of those .... still am actually..... being spam attacked.  Like it........ NO.  do more than grumble a bit?  NO.

Hey it is still a game and i never thought I could enjoy losing battle after battle or the fact that each one could mean my death.

But I am. I can do things with this character that I would never do otherwise.  Like sending them a letter saying that I was holding the city hostage with my big Entourage (which I find out is the smallest of them all later on, which made it even funnier). That I would starve the city into submission and demanded tribute and safe passage out.  I could just imagine the guys face when he read it.  How he must think me the total fool and I am only having fun with him. Because a man about to die can truly grow a pair..... lol
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 27, 2014, 07:42:02 AM
ya, I was one of those .... still am actually..... being spam attacked.  Like it........ NO.  do more than grumble a bit?  NO.

Hey it is still a game and i never thought I could enjoy losing battle after battle or the fact that each one could mean my death.

But I am. I can do things with this character that I would never do otherwise.  Like sending them a letter saying that I was holding the city hostage with my big Entourage (which I find out is the smallest of them all later on, which made it even funnier). That I would starve the city into submission and demanded tribute and safe passage out.  I could just imagine the guys face when he read it.  How he must think me the total fool and I am only having fun with him. Because a man about to die can truly grow a pair..... lol


No, I simply thought you were familiar enough with the capture/death chance rate to have a reasonable expectation that you would survive and eventually escape the characters hunting you.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: kellaine on May 27, 2014, 07:57:34 AM

No, I simply thought you were familiar enough with the capture/death chance rate to have a reasonable expectation that you would survive and eventually escape the characters hunting you.

That is always a hope.

But to be honest I know that it is still statistically probable that I will soon be captured or killed. But alas both end the same way.

Gives me a free character to take elsewhere.  I am learning that it is not always best to have all your proverbial eggs in one basket.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: De-Legro on May 27, 2014, 08:01:03 AM
That is always a hope.

But to be honest I know that it is still statistically probable that I will soon be captured or killed. But alas both end the same way.

Gives me a free character to take elsewhere.  I am learning that it is not always best to have all your proverbial eggs in one basket.


I have tried to capture about 30 active characters throughout the game. I think I have managed it twice. This time there are a few more characters in play, but all it takes is either the attacked noble getting lucky with their evades, or a player or two no logging in to renew battles and boom, you are out of there. Be different perhaps when the block area feature works but right now so long as you are an active player chances are you will escape, certainly most of Valast's characters have managed to do so, as did Tan's
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tom on May 27, 2014, 01:28:58 PM
Tried to disband the scouts on a character but came up to a blank white screen.

Always report white screns with server time, please. They are incredibly easy to fix, but only if I know they happen and at what time.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Andrew on May 28, 2014, 01:15:34 AM
Or when server time isn't available, it's timeline is gmt+1, so just do the math. And yes, they do DST.
Title: Re: But out Rathgar
Post by: Tom on May 28, 2014, 09:34:58 AM
Or when server time isn't available

It usually is available, just go to a different page. It doesn't have to be split-second accurate. I just need to know where to look into a logfile of half a GB.