Might & Fealty Community

Gameplay => Stories to tell => Topic started by: willy on April 22, 2017, 08:31:35 AM

Title: The Greenwardens
Post by: willy on April 22, 2017, 08:31:35 AM
He was an eccentric old man, covered with dented and sea-rusted weapons. Equally covered in scars. Tended to be jovial, barking a laugh at odd times. Murphy grew up a marauder, with his marauder parents, pillaging with rowdy lowlanders. Until, that is, he met an old scribe for the Order of Greenwardens as a young man. The scribe put him on a mission for god(s).

The Ancient and Honorable Greenwardens were a cult and brotherhood of sorts. Through "mystic" computation, using the ratio of the circumference of any circle to the diameter of that same circle, they are said to be able to mathematically prove the gods. Through further calculation, they are said to know the only undeniable missive from the gods... to protect. Many hope that a mathmetician's valhalla exists for those who follow the ancient mathmatica, but all accept the "bond of the three rings" as holy mission.

The band of dedicated bodyguard-knights forsake family name, marriage, and most titles for their semi-religious group and personal oath. Once initiated, they roam the world looking for someone to choose. Swearing only to protect and follow their chosen, one they see as worthy. Any may join so long as they can maintain the honor of their singular oath, but the path of the oath in itself requires goodness.

The Mad Murphy, uncouth though he was, took to the holy scripture. An uncanny facet for numbers, he became the Keeper of the Lore in time. A man capable of ordering and citing the scripture in his head...trillions of decimals away from a common man. He keeps the scripture written on every available inch of a cellar in Syndomton, sorted by chapter^verse.

[Rolled a KK bloodtype (double keeper of knowledge trait), and it sparked the idea for a socially inept barbarian mentalist/priest. Leader of a group of Pythagorian-cult meets crusaders-for-good, guildy type thing. I'll get a few knight offers opened in Syndmonton and Hymarick, if anyone is interested. Good-Aligned characters only, plz. Is it ok to recruit a guildy thing here?]
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: willy on April 22, 2017, 10:55:03 AM
Random peasant: "What are you on about, calculating a circle aint no religion."

Mad Murphy: "Nar, see. They be circles everywhere, as a natural order o' things..ya keen? Every circle is connected, talkin' in dem numbers. Like, d'ere be this place around the thousandth decimal, it clearly reference another number'n thing about da spiral o' life [fibonacci sequence, lol]. It be dere plain as day. I got da scripture in me head, but lemme show ya."

Peasant is intimidated into visiting the basement of the Order. It's like a room-wide chalkboard, every inch covered in numbers. Murphy points to a seemingly random point on the wall.

Murphy: "See here in 31^2, that be chapter 31 verse 2, if'n you can see the markers..."

The random peasant is just confused. All he really catches are the first few numbers....3.1415....


[4 slumbering ones sitting in muh town, with another in a village. Pillow fight!]

The Greenwardens brought kindness, though it was only one lone paladin at first. The defensible town of Hymarick was renamed Fort LostSoul. Offering a place of protection for any succumbing to blight. Also, a place anyone could come to hear the gospel mathmatica.


[If I decide to round up slumberers through capture]
Warband scrub A: "What do you mean you want 50 men to capture a Firstone to help him?"
Murphy: "Aye, take 'em to the Fort and keep people from abusin' 'em in 'is sleep."
Warband scrub B: "Ok, maybe...but 50 men?"
Murphy: "Aye, we First'un folken be mighty. He'll thrash a bit, some of ye will die. But round him up tootsweet."
Warband: "What about you?"
Murphy: "Nar, blight be catching. If I have to help with the thrashing... you weakling'sa be guarding trees in some backwater till ye die."
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: willy on May 18, 2017, 09:13:05 PM

I'll write something to amuse myself later, but for now, update:

Fort Lostsoul is now the first site of Warden Home, a politically-neutral public-service realm; one dedicated (at least right now) to teaching new First Ones. If I had to sum up where I'm going with it, it's like a mix between GRR Martin's Nightwatch (politically) and Terry Pratchett's Watchmen (aesthetically). Wrap it all up in a way that I think might work as a 'mentor' guild. Something to give new knights a good experience (hopefully) and sends them on their own individual way (after giving them a kind of tutorial thingy).


The neutral-ground WardenHome has started dialogue between Grand Fates and Western Confederation, so a proper goodie start. Currently the Fort will be offering knight offerings 1 at a time. Giving knights the option to join Wardens or Confederation or Fates (after Murphy shows newbies the ropes). I'll hopefully get a 'newbie guide' publication built eventually, might make things quicker. Once things get crowded at the Fort get an expedition to setup a new fort in another realm-boundary region (Lowlands/Ascalon maybe). End game is hopefully it can dot the land with semi-autonomous wardens/helper Forts.
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: Dystopian on May 18, 2017, 09:46:35 PM
I wish you luck with this. It may be harder than you think. Good luck!  ;D
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: willy on May 20, 2017, 11:55:54 AM
So I have an In-game publication I hope sums things up well. The important bits:
Quote

The Greenwarden Lore
Edition 1May 5, 2017 11:48


What it is:
A band of goodly aligned First One's who devote themselves to public service; sometimes odd characters and pariahs.
Though a religion, the only semblance is in their 'holy missive' and zealotry. Almost literally a generalization of "protect" and "good", they make a holy oath to protect/good. Though, the why, how, and exact details of "the old gods missive to the land" is debatable.


The Mission:
In an attempt to protect/good, the Wardens have sworn themselves to the protection of slumberblighted, teaching of new First Ones, and defense against rampant brigandry everywhere. Their services are offered to all, as well as the independent Fort-towns of Warden Home as a neutral ground and safe-haven for those in need.


The First Greenwarden (The Mad Keeper)
An ancient cult of sages roamed the land, briefly during a time of blight. Though they spoke only to numbers, it is said that they imparted their knowledge on one boy before disappearing entirely. A simple son of a Firstone raider; noble of blood, if not noble of birth.


Through "mystic" computation, using the ratio of the circumference of any circle to the diameter of that same circle, the sages taught proof of strange and mysterious gods. The boy, a savant of sorts with mathematics, took to the holy mission the sages revealed to him. Protect.


Though it is difficult to discern the exact nature of that holy mission, it seems just and benevolent in nature. The boy grew to a man in holy computation, isolated and clear of distraction. That man grew to an elderly man, bereft of social etiquette. It was in late adulthood that Murphy, the one called Mad, returned to the realm of men and established himself in the Fort he named Lostsoul.


There he began preaching his gospel, attempting to serve his gods, and took it upon himself to provide protection for new knights and the slumberblighted. There, the first Warden was named. The Keeper
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: willy on June 02, 2017, 07:45:27 AM
Total Slumberblighted Collected: 9
Total Knights Trained: three A sleeper and two suicides
:(


Might be about ready to send an expedition to try and setup a neutral wardenpost in the north-central (Lowlands/Strenvale/Ascalon), if I can keep a few steady knights. The public works/service stuff seems to be going well, if not the newbie training.
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: Dystopian on June 02, 2017, 06:06:59 PM
:D I saw that coming. All of us have way more sleepers than keepers, so I'm not surprised.
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: willy on June 10, 2017, 10:49:06 AM
Yeah, seems like retention is a problem all over. I've been working on some publications that might help. One for lore, but primarily two that are a kind of academic journal on the game. I'm trying to start it with a 'newbie primer' that might help people get to thinking on what they would like to do. I might add more to it, but I'm hoping to spread and get authors to make an article with their musings about management/war.


So here is a kind of bullet-point rough draft on the primers:


Quote
The Stewards Handbook (The Management/Steward Publication)

The managing of an estate is, in essence, the managing of humans and what they can do. You'll find that there are roughly 4 or 5 types of human in an estate. A soldier, who eats and fights. A craftsman, who works a building. The builders, unassigned freemen who erect buildings and roads. Lastly, the laborers who toil the land and generate the bulk of resources (as freeman workers with no vocation or enslaved thralls).


Protection (Soldiers)


There are a few stages to garrisoned militia. A token militia; perhaps a few soldiers to hold the gates and provide a bit of economic security as a townwatch, it at least blocks unacceptable entry and forces a person to break through the gates. A small militia; a company of ~100 to hopefully fend of a brigand (behind solid foritifications), denying entry to your estate from typical brigand hosts. 300 may fend off a few invading nobles, more than a thousand will look to eat away your peasantry but may stall an invasion.


Production (Craftsmen)


Buildings enable peasants to work a trade, yet each building takes away from available peasants.  Craftsmen will abandon their job to be a builder, so take care that you always have enough peasants (due to starvation or building workcrew). A thrall cannot be a craftsman, chained in a way to their farms/forests/mines. Wood, metal, goods, and wealth may help produce gear...but production is largely set by the population/food of an estate (and amount of craftsman you can devote to an industry).


Population (Peasants and Thralls)


Population of peasants and thralls fluctuate with food available, so food is by far the most vital resource. A mobilized soldier eats more than a garrison, a garrisoned soldier eats more than a peasant, a peasant more than a thrall, and a thrall eats least/last of all. So many militia can be a heavy burden from your farmers and craftsmen. Spreading food out evenly may yield quicker recruits, but consolidating into capital/house-seat is typically most useful for building and equipment production. Larger batches of soldiers being available for training when resources are focused into one core estate. Quicker gear production when peasants are consolidated in a high functioning city.


The Marshal's Handbook (The War/Marshal Publication)

The mobilization and usage of soldiers, in essence, is the calculated use of force. The amount of soldiers you can raise, the quality and richness of gear, and when/how the force is used...these are at the heart of what that force will consist of. That force will be represented by troops, classified typically by armor on reports, but they are simply an expression of power/wealth. Attack strength, determined mostly through weapons and exp, is less easy to gauge/scout. A recruit with an axe looking similar to a veteran with a broadsword from 1000 yards away, somewhat masking the force being used.


Amount and Types


You might consider troops at three tiers. Quick levies; naked axemen who are easily shredded in combat but are useful tools for looting and militia. A core of mass produced troops; generally leather/shield with varying weapon, the materials plentiful and training time moderate. The elites; a core of harder to produce troops, whether it's heavy armor or javalins, these will take far more investment and time but are true warriors...especially if veterans.


Use and Application


Quick levies of humans with little more than an axe might be considered purpose tools. They can provide number superiority in a battle on fairly short notice, equally capable at looting, and better speed than most units. Behind good fortifications they can be surprisingly effective, but better gear is always preferable.The amassed core of troops will likely be spear/leather/shield and longbow/leather/shield. Well rounded and cheap (if not quickly) produced troops that can hold a wall quite well and quite capable in the field. A small variation here can be quite impactful; 100 mace/leathers fighting 100 axe/leathers will seem similar in reports...but the battle will show you something was different. Elites are where you'll see a characters personality show. Amassed, heavy infantry are frightful behemoths. The fear factor will cause enemies to flee, the protection in ranged will likely get them to the melee. Cavalry having a similar and more powerful effect, but requiring a heavier investment of resources. Armored archers and mixed infanty (javalins) are impactful in both phases of combat, while varying in gear/effectiveness.


When and How


So you have an aggressor or are an aggressor, now heres where force application is determined. If you are vastly outnumbered our outmatched, there are a few tactics that might help, but you'll likely want to avoid engagements. If you are evenly matched; forcing your opponent on grounds that favor you will be the marshal's gambit, forcing them to storm you behind fortifications or luring them out of their fortifications (when you can get allied aid). You'll generally have a freer hand if you vastly outmatch your opponent, but may have to deal with the Greenwardens if you abuse the weak.


There are cases of pre-determined wars of honor. It can be helpful to both aggressor and defender to limit the all-out, grizzly fact of war. You'll likely not find it with brigands or those with poor reputation, but a limited and honorable war can make true friends faster than a decadent ally.


Figured I'd get some feedback and make sure I'm not just spouting nonsense before I publish it. I'll expand a bit in the rewrite, flesh it out with some Har's and Yar's, but once the primer's are up I'll set a modest batch of knight offers and we'll try and try again. I thought about adding stuff about relations and getting in a hierarchy and all that...but that seems a liege's responsibility. Anyone like, disagree, or would alter?


*Edit Notes: So misspelling and grammer aside, feedback so far is the militia garrison talk needs to be tweaked away from hard numbers. Maybe replace with 1/10th of population probably. Still not 100% on the scale of 'militia enough to defend against 3 or 4 characters with moderate means" and "enough militia to withstand a 20-character-realm invasion".


So I'll probably make a little flavor intro full of Mad Murphys oddballness. Simplify militia garrisoned into three tiers: One or two behind walls to force a battle, a token 10%, and the maximum troops you can garrison comfortably off total surplus food. Add in about 'floating militia', or what army you have mobilized that could defend a town, too. Describe the effect of militia on production, and simplify human classifications into four castes (soldier/craftsman/serf/thrall). Flesh out the wording here or there, fix the spelling/grammer, so far good stuff.
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: Andre on June 10, 2017, 12:48:14 PM
I would avoid Har's and Yar's, beyond just being more difficult to read, I imagine a noble or First One in this case would keep their accent out of their letters.


Also, the militia numbers are fine, atleast the 100 militia part is, generally you want 100-200 militia in a town. And a token militia is just that. I wouldn't really say much about numbers beyond there though, just say something like: "More than that would greatly reduce the worker count in the settlement, which would reduce production and future recruitmen".


Quote
The builders, unassigned freemen who erect buildings and roads. Lastly, the laborers who toil the land and generate the bulk of resources (as freeman workers with no vocation or enslaved thralls).
Here I would just say: "Serfs, who work the land or construct buildings and roads. And lastly, the Thralls, who can only work the land, but consume less food."


Quote
Population of peasants and thralls fluctuate with food available, so food is by far the most vital resource. A mobilized soldier eats more than a garrison, a garrisoned soldier eats more than a peasant, a peasant more than a thrall, and a thrall eats least/last of all. So many militia can be a heavy burden from your farmers and craftsmen.
This is only semi-correct. A soldier or militiaman don't eat less or more than normal peasants, they just produce less; none for the soldiers and 50% for the militia. The thralls eat less and produce the same as normal peasants, but they still eat at the same time as normal peasants. 




The rest I feel is not worded properly but is largely correct.



Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: willy on June 10, 2017, 01:19:05 PM

I feel bad for throwing it out roughshod as it is, but I'm lazy and more concerned that the information is correct/helpful before a rewrite.

I would avoid Har's and Yar's, beyond just being more difficult to read, I imagine a noble or First One in this case would keep their accent out of their letters.
Probably best. Maybe a flavor intro, then 'a scribe takes over'.


Also, the militia numbers are fine, atleast the 100 militia part is, generally you want 100-200 militia in a town. And a token militia is just that. I wouldn't really say much about numbers beyond there though, just say something like: "More than that would greatly reduce the worker count in the settlement, which would reduce production and future recruitmen".
10% of population was put forward by Demivar as a good benchmark for 'token militia' and should generally reflect defense against a brigand in a town worth defending. I wanted to include a 'high' militia mark, which 1k was more or less off the top of my head. Maybe I should focus on a 'optimal maximum' rather than a 'what can stall an invasion'. Three tiers: One or two behind walls to force a battle, a token 10%, and the maximum troops you can garrison comfortably off total surplus food.


I need to add in about 'floating militia', or what army you have mobilized that could defend a town, too. Probably a big factor.


Here I would just say: "Serfs, who work the land or construct buildings and roads. And lastly, the Thralls, who can only work the land, but consume less food."
I knew there was a way to simplify, thanks. 4 kinds of humans, soldier/craftsman/serf/thrall. Not sure why I wanted to separate builders and serfs.


This is only semi-correct. A soldier or militiaman don't eat less or more than normal peasants, they just produce less; none for the soldiers and 50% for the militia. The thralls eat less and produce the same as normal peasants, but they still eat at the same time as normal peasants. 
Glad I screened this. I was under the impression that food consumption varied more among soldiers. Didn't even occur to me that militia had an effect on production, hence the consumption change. Didn't even notice goods/wood.


How strong is the effect of cavalry on food consumption... and do surplus horses(produced gear) consume food?
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: Andre on June 10, 2017, 01:31:02 PM
99.99% sure that equipment (including horses) in no way changes the food consumption of soldiers. The stables themselves just take a whole lot of food to keep.
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on June 10, 2017, 08:18:25 PM
99.99% sure that equipment (including horses) in no way changes the food consumption of soldiers. The stables themselves just take a whole lot of food to keep.

Incorrect, heavier troops will produce less food than lighter troops.
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: Andrew on June 14, 2017, 05:05:34 PM
Soldiers (mobilized) all eat the same amount regardless.
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: Gustav Kuriga on June 15, 2017, 03:13:20 AM
Soldiers (mobilized) all eat the same amount regardless.

I was speaking of Militia.
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: De-Legro on June 15, 2017, 04:29:20 AM
Incorrect, heavier troops will produce less food than lighter troops.

I have never seen any reference in food production code that checks the equipment of troops set as militia. Economic security does, but it favours heavy armour.

We do need some sort of ongoing "cost" for troops that helps make heavy troops not the default, but so far as I know there is no draft plan.
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: Andrew on June 15, 2017, 11:40:34 AM
Given the sheer weight of heavier armor, they'd have to consume more food in order to maintain the same level of fitness required to fight as more lightly armed soldiers. It's not a stretch.
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: willy on June 15, 2017, 12:27:47 PM
Hmmm, I had an estate's total go up after mobilizing some heavy cavalry. Not sure what mechanic would be doing that, though. Might just be too many militia and efficiency went up per human.


I'll incubate the primer a week or two more. Good stuff rolling in here and there. Other characters are taking priority right now so I could do without a knight for a bit.
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: De-Legro on June 16, 2017, 03:49:50 PM
Given the sheer weight of heavier armor, they'd have to consume more food in order to maintain the same level of fitness required to fight as more lightly armed soldiers. It's not a stretch.


Only if we assume that troops for some reason only attain a "fitness" level relevant to their armour. Firstly heavy armour is not all that heavy, as has been pointed out many times modern troops often carry far more weight in their battle harnesses. Secondly the attribute that matters most is strength, which has other side benefits such as swing/thrust damage. Food rations are historically far more likely to be based upon social status within the army and/or unit experience. Of course in the real world unit experience kind of goes hand in hand with better equipment.
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: Andrew on June 16, 2017, 04:47:06 PM
Hm. I was thinking more leather vs chain or plate, but you're right.

I suppose a different question would be, do we want to change how we handle levied soldiers, so we differentiate between those recruited out of villages (where you're taking whoever can hold a sword) and those trained in a city (where you'd have facilities and programs to train proper soldiers)?

City training could, if people opt for actual training, take longer but train already lightly experienced soldiers, while taking raw recruits would be MUCH faster, but start soldiers out at 0.
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: De-Legro on June 16, 2017, 05:07:16 PM
I have spoken of this before, but I will repeat it. I believe troops should be divided into 3 types with different roles in the game. The troops we have now should form the basis of standing armies, troops that can be mobilised and moved around. We should have proper militia, troops that are truly tied to the city/village they belong to, citizens that act as a police force and defense force in one. The third type should be hastily raised peasant levies for defense purposes.


As well as having defined roles, the system would also allow for having troops that are "naturally" more skilled, due to the fact that they devote more of their time to martial training etc.
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: Andre on June 16, 2017, 10:24:54 PM
As De-Legro pointed out before me, medieval armor and weapons don't really weigh much at all, definetly not for someone who is trained.


Also, I believe what is best is that we can still train troops the same way as now, with just the training facilities that exist, but we should have the option to either just levy troops and give them weapons, which would basically mean that they are recruited in possibly a few days at most with no experience. But you should also be able to select to actually train the troops, which makes them start with experience but take possibly the same time as now or even longer to recruit.


Alternativly we could also do something where you can choose to levy troops, recruit militia, or recruit mobile troops. Levied troops could have low morale and start with no experience, but they would be recruited in the matter of days or maybe not even that. Militia would take about as long as now, but would start with minimal experience, they would also suffer morale penalties when a decent bit from their home town, which mobile troops wouldn't or they would just suffer penalties sooner than mobile troops. Mobile troops would take even longer to recruit but would start with a decent bit of experience and they could be used for war far from your towns. Ofcourse you could also have additional things such as mobile troops will never produce food in a town, even if placed as a militia, though they would still defend the town. And Levies might start running away soon after being levied. Maybe mobile troops would also cost gold to maintain. You should probably also be able to retrain them to a different level, possibly not downgrade militia or mobile to levies though, but you could retrain levies into the other two. Maybe also the possibility of them automatically upgrading once they reach a certain experience level? Though if that happens I imagine you'd also want them to lose experience over time slowly and possibly also downgrade automatically if they lose enough. With that last thought of upgrades I'm also thinking that maybe once they become experienced enough and you haven't had battle for a long time they run a certain chance of becoming mercenaries recruitable in inn's?


Sorry for the rambling at the end there. Really just random thoughts after a while.
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: willy on June 22, 2017, 05:05:07 PM
So I've worked grammar and spelling some. Fleshed out odd bits that were suggested. I'll post a foreward I did, something kind of orienting new players for 'wat do'...rather than 'how do'.


Quote
Foreward


So you have taken the prerogative of a First One, the rightful command of humans. A worthy deed in itself, but there is much to it that you will need to know. Your first step, swearing to a liege, should be complete (if you've taken a knight offer). Finding a position in a power structure (a realm) is vital to survival and finding out about your surroundings. There are those who strike off on their own, but such a task is risky.


Now what to do? A liege may have tasks for you. They are your go-to for questions, problems, and concerns. What you intend to do will require different things, some of which your liege may provide...some you may have to find on your own. You'll find realm chatter, which varies from quantity to quality, tyrannies to paragons of freedom of expression.


Were you able to find help to decide what to do next? Good, do that...and figure out what might be best for the long term. No? Greenwardens typically offer mentoring, you may find others nearby in similar situations, or this might be a chance to come up with your own goals. Big events can take time, sometimes, First One's living life at different paces.


So now you have a goal. Be it grow and prosper as lord of an estate(s), or serve as a warrior knight commanding troops in glorious battle for your liege. You'll need to know how best to do these things effectively. So here is the Mad Keeper's Primer, the first entry in a helpful collection of observations by mentor Greenwardens. Presenting, the Steward (or Marshal's) Handbook.


A bit bare-bones like the handbook drafts, but that is the essential keypoints. I'll flesh it out some, maybe incubate a few more ideas before I post it... then I'll run some knight offers and see if it helps retention. Maybe it goes full blown academic journal-ish if other authors/armchairexperts get interested.
Title: Re: The Greenwardens
Post by: willy on June 25, 2017, 03:08:48 PM
I've also come up with some in-game plans. Estates that demonstrate things fairly well (village, town, capital), and some watchtowers with enough blindspots to play a game of hide-and-seek. I can tell them about the overtly complicated tribute system the Wardens pay out.


I'm also going to try a more RP heavy Greenwarden in Molk. I'm not sure if I've mentioned the Molk Town Melee, but slumberblighted-old-man Greymane demands blood. It's (http://mightandfealty.com/en/character/view/9582) about as quirky, but I'm going in an entirely different direction with how to keep knights.