Author Topic: How to Tutorial  (Read 118 times)

Ehndras

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Re: How to Tutorial
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2018, 03:00:33 AM »
You know damn well you bring solid ideas to the table, Legro, so don't ask rhetorical questions. :P


In accordance to how you framed the question, it was the only meaningful option. I still think having tutorial-mirroring achievements in the ACTUAL game is a plus, if only as a reminder (and ego-boost) but a simulated framework is the way to go. Just figured no one wanted to bother making one so it wasn't a serious option.


If one is to agree, one should provide feedback and ideas. Would've been easier to just post "Yeah, do that" but what's the point (or fun!) in that? ;)
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Ehndras

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Re: How to Tutorial
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2018, 03:02:58 AM »
Hmm. Video tutorials work, for sure, but many players are do-and-learn types. Some can watch video tutorials and Lets Plays all day but most can learn more in 5 minutes of clicking around than 5 hours of watching some other guy do it for you, catch my drift?
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Cipheron

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Re: How to Tutorial
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2018, 02:42:30 PM »
Video tutorials are a pretty good idea, but keep them very short and specific, and have them cross-linked from within the manual, but also from the relevant page inside the game. So basically you have a troop-training video linked from both the manual, and from the troop-training screen, and have the video screen also have links to see all the topics covered. This set-up would add some interactivity and life to the game for new players.

however, building a decent in-game achievement system should definitely be on the list of goals.

in-game achievements are great for retention and getting people to log back in. They can also be used to foreshadow "things you can do" in the game, e.g. that gets around the problem of people not knowing what's possible. Additionally, if the "achievement builder" is built into the game itself, then it can be used by the devs to create missions, but also by players to create complex player-created missions.

I'd suggest that in-game tasks can be set as being at the character-level or the account-level (e.g. there should be an achievement for becoming a vassal to another player, but only once per account rather than per character, which would be silly: not every character should do every action), and they should be able to be chained together, with any new tasks that the current task opens up being shown in the current task (in a similar fashion to Civilization's "tech tree"). This would allow only a few tasks to be visible at the start, but gradually reveal new things you can do.

A basic flow of achievements would be "create a character", and then once you do that, several new ones appear, such as "become a vassal", "place a character in the world". In this case, taking a knight's offer right off the bat would clear off both of those tasks.

Once in the game,  there would be other achievements such marrying another character (only counting different accounts), and taking over a settlement. And once certain requirements are met, then that opens up new tasks. e.g. once you have a settlement, then that opens up certain game possibilities, and the way the task system opens up can mirror those possibilities, while also encouraging inter-player interactions such as making knights' offers. e.g. have a "make a knight's offer" reward, then a reward for having your first vassal (from a different account), but you could also have achievements for having e.g. 3 and then 5 vassals in total. Taking the vassals with your own account wouldn't count. While some people could "fake" that with multiple accounts, they're not actually gaining anything (just the abstract concept of having completed something), and most players wouldn't do that. It would incentivize enough extra knight's offer creation to really make a difference.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 03:01:16 PM by Cipheron »

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Re: How to Tutorial
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2018, 09:12:46 AM »
Topic has been split because this is way past the 1.1 update's scope.

If we're going to do videos, I agree on them being specific. Only a few areas would really need them, though, in my opinion.

I'm not against some sort of achievement thing though. It'd not be particularly hard to code, if we had it set in such a way that it was smaller, individual tasks.

[ ] Won a Battle
[ ] Lost a Battle
[ ] Became a Lord
[ ] Became a Ruler
[ ] Joined a Realm

etc.

Stuff that doesn't actually require me to make systems for players to interact with it should be much easier to do than things that require me to let people change it (the system changing it based on different criteria is much easier).
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Cipheron

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Re: How to Tutorial
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2018, 01:09:56 PM »
In the vein of having an achievement system be tutorial-esque, i would prefer it's kept at more of a low level than that. Players respond better to immediate small goals that chain together, rather than making a long-term goal such as "become a ruler".

I would code small tasks "create a character", "place a character in the world", "take a knight's offer", "control a settlement", "set permissions on a settlement" etc. things that show you've found your way around some aspect of the game's interface. new task would become active whenever you complete an old one (some would be coded that you need to complete a different objective before they're available).
 
the point of having achievements is that they keep the player logging back in, so they need to be responsive and achievable right from the start. if you look at any system with "levels", then the first few levels (and/or tasks) are always really quick to achieve, then things gradually slow down. Having only things like "won a battle" don't serve that gameplay purposes, because you need to be playing too long to achieve that.

So ... basic design principles from any "level up" and/or achievement / badge system (they're effectively the same thing from a player psychology point of view) is to make them incredibly easy to achieve at the start, then gradually make them cost more work to achieve. You can signal this by categorizing them as bronze, silver or gold achievements. Winning a battle would be a "gold" badge, which making a character only nets you one bronze badge.

Having only long term badges such as for winning a battle or becoming king serves no purpose. Nobody is going to log back in who wasn't going to anyway because there's a badge for becoming king. But ... if they have a list of immediate tasks that they're told they haven't finished, then many players will log back more often to get those.

It also helps if there are separate tracks with overlapping goals. So, you've achieved one goal, but your halfway to getting another unrelated one. This is acknowledged by Sid Meier in the sucess of the Civilization series. They have separate milestones each with their own timers (producing units, making building, building wonders, your next tech upgrade, exploring), so you're never "finished" everything at once: you're always in the middle of a number of task. So you always feel "well I'm only a few turns away from producing XYZ so I'll keep playing" but then you achieve that next goal, e.g. producing a new technology, and you realize that then you're only a few turns away from building the Pyramids, so yet again you keep playing. having lots of small, little goals along the way is what leads to player retention. Promises of a big reward right at the end do not.

The only thing to watch out for is that if people are motivated by small frequent achievements, then you never really want a situation where they've run out of things to aspire to. Have some really difficult ones in there. You'd be surprised: if the goals just run out, lots of people will stop playing. However, if there are e.g. three near-impossible goals they won't ever feel like they've "finished" the game. Also you can do things like having repeat achievements for achieve "X" of something. e.g. you get a badge for having one vassal (per account), but then have that badge update to be to have 3,6,10,15  vassals (not at once, but across your entire account's history).

you can get clever about the type of behavior you want to encourage. e.g. if you have dungeon-exploring badges, and make ones for exploring 1 dungeon then 3,6,10,15 etc (pascal's number), then you're going to get a subset of players who go off dungeoneering a lot, who wouldn't do that otherwise. Hell, even counters that keep track of how many times you've done some tasks are enough for many players. e.g. if you had a stats page showing how many battles you've won / lost, how many dungeons you've ever explored, etc, then players will gear their playstyle to increasing those numbers. You don't need to get technical here, just take advantage of how silly us humans are.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 06:03:44 PM by Cipheron »