Author Topic: Troops V2.0 - Unit Types  (Read 567 times)

De-Legro

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Troops V2.0 - Unit Types
« on: November 24, 2017, 12:00:24 AM »
As the game stands, troops are just mobilised militia. Our troops can fill any role at any time which provides flexibility, but does not provide for choice and consequence. I propose a system that has three potential troop types.

1) Standard Trooops/Professional Troops

These are the troops that accompany our characters in war. In addition to martial training, they receive training in field marching, fortified camp construction etc.

2) Militia

These are your local troops, troops that perform both a defensive purpose and provide what passes for a police force in medieval times. In general they are not meant to be used outside of the settlement though we could consider allowing them to be mobilised with some sort of penalty, perhaps lower morale. In contrast with Professional troops they don't require as much infrastructure, since they live within the settlement in their own houses they don't require barracks, and they are equipped directly from the settlements armoury.

3) Levies (future possibility)

Giving your populace weapons from your armour and pressing them into emergency service. They likely have little to no skill in combat, generally don't want to be there and constantly worry about getting back to their fields for the harvest. I am not proposing to add these guys in at this stage, but they are a future possibility to plan for.
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Constantine

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Re: Troops V2.0 - Unit Types
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2017, 02:54:44 PM »
Please explain further how this will improve the experience. Basically this sounds like an introduction of "weaker" tier troops (garrison and levies). I don't see how this provides flexibility or choice at all.

silvershot

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Re: Troops V2.0 - Unit Types
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2017, 03:11:15 PM »
Please explain further how this will improve the experience. Basically this sounds like an introduction of "weaker" tier troops (garrison and levies). I don't see how this provides flexibility or choice at all.


Levies are weaker, but would allow you to bolster your ranks more quickly in the event you lose a significant chunk of fighting force. They can act as cheaper fodder to protect your more effective troops. Professionals would likely end up being more expensive, while levies would fill in the gaps with being less expensive. When not serving, they'd probably do more work around a settlement than the militia.

I should say, I'd expect something along those lines. I made a suggestion like this previously.


Edit:
In my suggestion, the training was front loaded as well -- you trained them, and later called them up. They produce a tiny bit less than normal peasants, since they can't forget their normal training -- and have a significantly reduced amount of time to call them into service whenever you do so. Think of it as time spent forming units, gathering equipment, any minor refreshers, etc.

I'd also imagine you could have any of the three do any job, just some less effectively, efficiently, or at greater cost. Professional soldiers would make fine militia, but they wouldn't contribute much to the economy and they'd cost more for likely not fighting much better than militia at the walls.

Militia would be significantly less expensive; a little less skilled, but they also work in the economy and can help pay for themselves. As said, they wouldn't likely want to leave their hometown, or possibly just get very upset for leaving their local realm even if they're able to. That's the domain of the professional soldiers, who won't complain about much.

Levies probably wouldn't be much less effective than militia at the walls, but in active defensive service they'd probably lose a chunk of the economic contribution. If you think a big attack is coming, you could try to rally them into service in time (but you'd run into training constraints). They'll also travel hopefully a little bit easier than militia. Meanwhile, they'd also be the cheapest upkeep. Since upkeep SHOULD be a thing.

It does make balance even harder, though -- to add a third option. But it might be interesting.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 03:21:18 PM by silvershot »

Constantine

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Re: Troops V2.0 - Unit Types
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2017, 03:22:11 PM »
What is unique about M&F and what I really like about this game is persistent mortal characters who, once trained, hang around until dead or disbanded and can fill any role you need. They can ride to battle or man the walls. Every soldier has unique history. This is fantastic.


What is suggested here I see as a serious downgrade. When we go for restrictive troop types, we go back from truly flexible individual soldiers to gamey "units/unit types". I see a lot of harm in this but I fail to see any real benefits. The announced benefit was that less active players would have an easier time building up their garrisons? Not important enough for such a huge change, imo.


I do like the idea to sophisticate the equipment supply though. I don't fully understand how it's supposed to work though.

De-Legro

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Re: Troops V2.0 - Unit Types
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2017, 02:01:25 AM »
What is unique about M&F and what I really like about this game is persistent mortal characters who, once trained, hang around until dead or disbanded and can fill any role you need. They can ride to battle or man the walls. Every soldier has unique history. This is fantastic.


What is suggested here I see as a serious downgrade. When we go for restrictive troop types, we go back from truly flexible individual soldiers to gamey "units/unit types". I see a lot of harm in this but I fail to see any real benefits. The announced benefit was that less active players would have an easier time building up their garrisons? Not important enough for such a huge change, imo.


I do like the idea to sophisticate the equipment supply though. I don't fully understand how it's supposed to work though.

When did I say I was removing the individual nature of troops? Professional or Militia they would retain the current system of being named and having history. It would also be completely possible to train militia troops into a professional force, or retire professional troops into militia. It would simply take time instead of the instant actions we have now. Nor did I announce anything about allowing less active players an easier time to build up garrisons.

As I said at the beginning this is not about adding more flexibility, but about presenting choices. Once troops actually have on going costs Lords will need to decide if they want to dedicate their limited resources into have more of the flexible professional troops, or having a larger over all defense force by recruiting cheaper militia forces.
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Constantine

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Re: Troops V2.0 - Unit Types
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2017, 02:18:35 PM »
Professional or Militia they would retain the current system of being named and having history. It would also be completely possible to train militia troops into a professional force, or retire professional troops into militia. It would simply take time instead of the instant actions we have now.
I think we need a better explanation of how you envision this new system. Because I am completely confused right now.
Do you just mean that mobilising troops from settlement garrisons will not be an instant action (as it is now) but a lengthy and costly process?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 02:20:26 PM by Constantine »

De-Legro

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Re: Troops V2.0 - Unit Types
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2017, 11:10:33 PM »
I think we need a better explanation of how you envision this new system. Because I am completely confused right now.
Do you just mean that mobilising troops from settlement garrisons will not be an instant action (as it is now) but a lengthy and costly process?

As soldiers are individuals you always have the option of moving/retraining them between forces. There would be some sort of retraining time associated.

With regards to mobilising units designated as militia, there is no current plan. I want to try and balance the ability to mobilise your militia in order to defend your neighbors, with the desire to put in some limitations regarding the ability of realms like Hawks to mobilise ridiculous numbers of troops when they go on the offensive. There is certainly a lot of balancing work to be done before this part of the troops upgrade sees the light of day.
He who was once known as Blackfyre