Author Topic: Soldier Experience  (Read 725 times)

cenrae

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Soldier Experience
« on: June 18, 2017, 10:53:30 AM »
I remember a long time ago Tom said when soldiers got around 20 experience their survival rate greatly increases.  Has anyone experimented much with soldier experience? When do you think it's best to train into calvary or say plate for example?
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WVH

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Re: Soldier Experience
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2017, 11:14:33 AM »
To a point.  If you get beaten badly in a battle tho... they are all going to die anyway.


I had a unit of 20 special plate/warhorse/broadsword warriors with 80+ exp.  Added them to a couple hundred other warriors but was caught in a pitched battle of about 2/1... beaten but then then of course if you can not get away fast enough, you go through round and round of battles... and every one of them will die.  Or if you are lucky, you get a few left wounded and they die while running around trying to avoid more battles.

Dorian

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Re: Soldier Experience
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2017, 12:45:18 PM »
From my experience the veterans die like any other soldiers. They deal a lot of damage (I think), but don't appear to be as resilient as they should. Considering the amount of time you need to gain the experience and how difficult it is to do it, it doesn't seem to be worth it.

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Re: Soldier Experience
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2017, 01:25:33 PM »
Hm...

I wonder if it's possible to simply render a soldier unconcious in battle rather than just kill them. I'd think it'd be as simple as removing the soldier from his unit group, and that you could trigger this in situations where a high-xp soldier would otherwise be killed.

They'd still be seriously wounded, and I'm not sure if wounded soldiers dieing after the battle is a thing (it should be if it isn't), but it'd make this less squishy.
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Foxglove

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Re: Soldier Experience
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2017, 02:00:04 PM »
I'm not sure if wounded soldiers dieing after the battle is a thing (it should be if it isn't)

I'm pretty sure it is a thing. I've had soldiers with the blood drops after them in the listings who die outside of battle. I've never made a point to study the percentage of wounded soldiers who die rather than recover, but I've always had the impression that it's more common for wounded to die than recover. But that's entirely based on instinct as I've never made a study of it, as I say.

From my experience the veterans die like any other soldiers. They deal a lot of damage (I think), but don't appear to be as resilient as they should. Considering the amount of time you need to gain the experience and how difficult it is to do it, it doesn't seem to be worth it.

That's also been my feeling about experienced soldiers. It's not really worth fussing too much about when you put experienced soldiers in to higher classes of weapons and armour. Just put the most experienced soldiers you have into the best weapon/armour combinations available to you, and don't worry about it too much. As others have said, if you get caught on the wrong side of a battle with numbers against you, the highly experienced will die as easily as a rookie. And asymetrical battles are much more the norm in this game than evenly balanced ones.

Hm...

I wonder if it's possible to simply render a soldier unconcious in battle rather than just kill them. I'd think it'd be as simple as removing the soldier from his unit group, and that you could trigger this in situations where a high-xp soldier would otherwise be killed.

Although it seems like a good idea, it's a difficult thing to balance (I imagine). 10 soldiers each with 100 experience get in to a battle with 100 soldiers with 10+ experience each. The highly experienced soldiers get slaughtered to a man. How probable would it then be that those 10 highly experienced soldiers are just left unconscious on the battlefield rather than the enemy walking around knifing them in the neck while they're on the ground in dreamland? Come to that, how probable is it that 10 highly experienced soldiers would survive at all against those sorts of superior numbers? All battles in this game are essentially open-field without any terrain adavantages that a small number of highly trained soldiers could exploit to survive.

It's one of those development decisions where gameplay meets reality and one of them has to come out on top. In reality, it's entirely reasonable that highly experienced soldiers die as easily as the next man. In gameplay terms, its annoying to spend time grinding soldiers up the very long experience ladder to then see them get killed off in the space of a battle or two.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 02:08:38 PM by Foxglove »
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silvershot

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Re: Soldier Experience
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2017, 04:08:47 PM »
Really, highly experienced soldiers should handle a retreat better and be able to move away in a more orderly, safe fashion and perhaps take less casualties in the pursuit phase. They should also be generally better fighters, of course, but knowing how to stay orderly when they know they can no longer win the battle should ensure that more survive.

Constantine

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Re: Soldier Experience
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2017, 11:37:50 PM »
In fact experienced soldiers tend to not flee from the battle when things go south and stay in the fight longer than rookies. So when the odds are against you, your best soldiers are most likely to get multiple wounds and die.

De-Legro

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Re: Soldier Experience
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2017, 04:55:37 AM »
Yes it is on the to do list to improve solider decisions based on likely battle outcome. The trick is sometimes you want your mean to retreat, and others you want a last stand, so it probably needs player input. At the same time you need to make sure people don't get too much advantage from say using troops to block/area ornotherwise delay while set to early retreat.
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Constantine

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Re: Soldier Experience
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2017, 12:21:41 PM »
That problem would be solved if battle preparation time somehow correlated with not only army size but also army size difference. If you're engaging an army twenty times larger than your own, we can lower preparation time to 5 minutes without any gameplay issues.

De-Legro

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Re: Soldier Experience
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2017, 12:50:47 PM »
That problem would be solved if battle preparation time somehow correlated with not only army size but also army size difference. If you're engaging an army twenty times larger than your own, we can lower preparation time to 5 minutes without any gameplay issues.

It already does that, has done for a long time. The original change was due to behaviour during a Rathgar war. I believe abou 20 minutes is as short as I have seen it but it may have been adjusted since then. This was back when people would use nobles with a single solider to tie down armies.

During the EI war a loophole was fixed where you could attack with a tiny force, get the small battle timer and then transfer troops to that character without increasing the timer.

But that doesn't actually address the issue I raised, since it is not necessary to use a much smaller force if you intend to have your force pull back quickly.
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Constantine

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Re: Soldier Experience
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2017, 01:09:16 PM »
If you're using a full company to cover army's retreat and instruct soldiers to disengage early, that actually sounds like a valid tactic though.

De-Legro

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Re: Soldier Experience
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2017, 02:37:10 PM »
If you're using a full company to cover army's retreat and instruct soldiers to disengage early, that actually sounds like a valid tactic though.

And if you are doing in enmass to prevent people from joining a pitched battle some 300 yards away? Yes there are times that it would make sense. Given current mechanics there are plenty of times where it won't. 100 men can tie down 400 or more for 7 hours, regardless of the terrian or other factors.
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Constantine

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Re: Soldier Experience
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2017, 02:54:09 PM »
For that reason I suggested to increase interaction range considerably. So there would be no need to babysit your troops. Right now those who can micromanage multiple party movement 24/7 always win. If you could interact with everything in the province once you entered it, we'd see a much more laid-back game.

silvershot

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Re: Soldier Experience
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2017, 02:54:49 PM »
And if you are doing in enmass to prevent people from joining a pitched battle some 300 yards away? Yes there are times that it would make sense. Given current mechanics there are plenty of times where it won't. 100 men can tie down 400 or more for 7 hours, regardless of the terrian or other factors.


The best way they could do that is if it were 100 well equipped and skilled soldiers, probably cavalry, versus a messy rabble. But that would probably be over in far less time than 7 hours, anyway.

Edit: It'd be nice if there was an easy way to combine nearby battles, but sometimes not even realm is appropriate.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 03:29:25 PM by silvershot »

De-Legro

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Re: Soldier Experience
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2017, 05:22:44 PM »
For that reason I suggested to increase interaction range considerably. So there would be no need to babysit your troops. Right now those who can micromanage multiple party movement 24/7 always win. If you could interact with everything in the province once you entered it, we'd see a much more laid-back game.

How does that help? One bigger interaction zones make block area more effective? Second your opponent can still engage you once you are in range before you can join the battle if they are more active/happen to be online at the right time.


The best way they could do that is if it were 100 well equipped and skilled soldiers, probably cavalry, versus a messy rabble. But that would probably be over in far less time than 7 hours, anyway.

Edit: It'd be nice if there was an easy way to combine nearby battles, but sometimes not even realm is appropriate.

No the solution is easy, you don't allow new battles to be created with X yards of an existing one. Then you.don't need logic to combine battles that are close.
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