Author Topic: Third slot overhaul  (Read 835 times)

Constantine

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Third slot overhaul
« on: June 10, 2017, 01:28:59 PM »
I've had this idea for a while and decided to write it down after seeing Demi's javelins thread. My suggestions are somewhat broader and reach far beyond javelin tweaks so I decided to start a new thread.

My idea is that third slot items should be less "flat bonus" and more "fiddly, cool tech stuff".

Proposed qualities:
Shield: reduce defense bonus, 50% chance to ignore the first wound in combat (destroy it if it happens)
Horse: no defense bonus, reduce attack bonus, 50% chance to ignore two wounds in combat (destroy it if it happens)
War horse: reduced attack and defense bonus, 50% chance to ignore three wounds (destroy it if it happens)
Javelin: greatly reduced damage, but if target has a shield or horse equipped 50% chance to instantly destroy those instead
Short swords: A bit stuck here. Second attack with reduced power?
Also maybe add "ladder" items for those bloody sieges.

Well, you got the idea. Thoughts and comments are welcome.

willy

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Re: Third slot overhaul
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2017, 01:43:52 PM »
+1 for the whole idea, except about cavalry. I think currently they kill fleeing enemies at a higher rate (or they should), which is the perfect effect. Probably already a defense/offense boost for war horses.

Constantine

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Re: Third slot overhaul
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2017, 01:55:22 PM »
Yes, they already have a def/off boost and I suggest to decrease it. Everything else (like speed and scariness) stays the same. But perhaps 2 and 3 wounds is a bit too powerful, so let's go down to 1 and 2 respectively.

De-Legro

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Re: Third slot overhaul
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2017, 11:02:41 AM »
My current thinking is to scrape the slot system entirely and allow far more free form equipment loadouts.
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Foxglove

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Re: Third slot overhaul
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2017, 02:06:20 PM »
I like that idea. The divisions of items between the equipment slots have never really made that much sense to me. For example, why can't you have a sword, a shield, and a horse? You're using a broadsword from the back of a horse and not falling off? That's impressive. Why can archers carry shields when it would look ridiculous for a bowman to be walking along holding a longbow in one hand and a shield in the other? The only way I've ever been able to rationalize the longbowman with a shield is that they plant the shield in the soil and stand behind it to fire their longbows.

A more free form system would be great. You want to have soldiers who wield two swords? Go on then. You want to have riders with sword and shield? Fine.

However, I can see that all of that would need a huge rebalancing of the entire equipment system and some way to prevent a free form combination such as broadsword, platemail, shield, warhorse, being stupidly overpowered.

It would also be great if the equipment system had some actual logic to it that prevented combinations of equipment that would either never be possible in real life or just wouldn't make sense. For example, halberd and horse; platemail and longbow; horse and longbow; etc. 
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Andre

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Re: Third slot overhaul
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2017, 02:54:39 PM »

Agreed that it should be more freeform. I'm thinking possibly some kind of weight or mobility system to equipment aswell? I mean certainly using a broadsword, plate, shield and warhorse is possible, but the biggest immediate problem I can think of is that if you do fall off it would be quite difficult to get back up I imagine, certainly ontop of the horse but possibly even on your feet. And for other things such as possibly having several weapons, a shield and plate, it is possible but the soldier would certainly have a more difficult time moving around and they would also get tired quicker.

I wouldn't say horse and longbow should be impossible, not sure if it is possible to shoot a longbow from horseback or not, but even if it is you can at the very least use the horse to get to and from battles.


I also wouldn't say wielding halbers on horseback should be impossible either, as far as I am aware halbers and similar large two-handed weapons could very well be used on horseback. This game also doesn't really specify what exactly the weapons are either as far as I know, so a halberd could very well be a shorter than you imagine aswell.


In general I wouldn't limit combinations at all, possibly all I would do is maybe add some negatives to some items, like maybe a negative to ranged in heavier armor or something. Because as far as I am aware plate was still fairly manouverable and you were fully capable of using a bow with it, main reason people in plate didn't use bows was because plate was used by knights and wealthy individuals, and bows were peasant weapons.

Andrew

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Re: Third slot overhaul
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2017, 03:06:39 PM »
Hence the 9 slot system.

Dual wield? Do it.

Mounted with shield? Go.

I mean, if you wanted a halberd on a horse, who am I to say you have no style?

I'm not against penalizing combos that don't really work logically, though, like plate and bows (not crossbows), for instance.

I also would like to add more options in general, just because players should be able to flavor their soldiers to however they want.

And item durability.
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Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Third slot overhaul
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2017, 03:21:00 AM »
Hence the 9 slot system.

Dual wield? Do it.

Mounted with shield? Go.

I mean, if you wanted a halberd on a horse, who am I to say you have no style?

I'm not against penalizing combos that don't really work logically, though, like plate and bows (not crossbows), for instance.

I also would like to add more options in general, just because players should be able to flavor their soldiers to however they want.

And item durability.

Plate had nothing to do with why knights did not typically use bows. It was a cultural thing, as bows were seen as cowardly or of lower status than other weapons.

De-Legro

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Re: Third slot overhaul
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2017, 04:24:34 AM »
Plate had nothing to do with why knights did not typically use bows. It was a cultural thing, as bows were seen as cowardly or of lower status than other weapons.

How's don't allow you to personally take noble prisoners for ransom, which is often a big goal for knights. It is also simply largely a waste. Mounted knights need to be ready to charge at opportune moments, dismounted knights need to be marching as infantry to make best use of their heavy armour.
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Constantine

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Re: Third slot overhaul
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2017, 11:16:17 AM »
I mean, if you wanted a halberd on a horse, who am I to say you have no style?

I'm not against penalizing combos that don't really work logically, though, like plate and bows (not crossbows), for instance.
Halberds on horseback - makes perfect sense.
Longbows with heavy armour - doesn't work logically.
Mind blown.


It's either we allow all kinds of fantasy/exotic combinations or we keep a set of more or less conservative restrictions, because it's gonna be really controversial and arbitrary otherwise.

Andre

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Re: Third slot overhaul
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2017, 01:04:14 PM »
Actually it does make a certain amount of sense. While using a longbow in Plate is perfectly possible as far as I know, atleast if you remove your gauntlets. It would still be even a bit more difficult to do so than if you had say only leather armor or chainmail.


And as I said, historically people have used two handed and quite large weapons perfectly well on horseback.

Constantine

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Re: Third slot overhaul
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2017, 02:32:07 PM »
Actually it does make a certain amount of sense. While using a longbow in Plate is perfectly possible as far as I know, atleast if you remove your gauntlets. It would still be even a bit more difficult to do so than if you had say only leather armor or chainmail.


And as I said, historically people have used two handed and quite large weapons perfectly well on horseback.
Yes, historically polearms were used on horseback. Not halberds though.
But the question is what's more difficult: using a longbow in heavy armour or effectively wielding a halberd on horseback?
Anyway it is not even about difficulty but about soldiers being allowed to equip said combinations of items.

Andre

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Re: Third slot overhaul
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2017, 02:36:56 PM »
Halberds can and were used on horseback aswell as far as I am aware, and other similar weapons that are also large and not purely for stabbing.

Constantine

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Re: Third slot overhaul
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2017, 02:46:43 PM »
Halberds can and were used on horseback aswell as far as I am aware,
You are simply wrong.

Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Third slot overhaul
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2017, 01:52:59 AM »
You are simply wrong.

You sure about that?