Author Topic: Player-Run Tutorial-style Experience  (Read 418 times)

Ehndras

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Player-Run Tutorial-style Experience
« on: November 29, 2016, 01:13:21 PM »
Would any of y'all be interested in a sort of tutorial academy realm to ease many of these troubles?

A few players and I are hashing a concept for such a thing. A small realm that tutors, trains, and educates new players, teaches them the general history of realms, helps them find their place in the world, run simulated battles with a throwaway char or two, how to enjoy dungeons, how to access a settlement and how to run it efficiently, etc.

All the while running simultaneous RPs on both superficial levels for the inexperienced, and deeper for the intensive-RP type of players.

Once training is complete, Initiates become Alumni and "graduate":

From here you are given a choice of realms to join, based on information garnered from the game itself. History, current events, wars, politics, play styles, themes - giving players a more educated and rounded means to find their place in the world.

Realms can petition the Institute/Collegium/Whatever for new recruits, and even set "orders" for particular types. Like, if Hawks wants a highly-active char that fits into a certain behavioral profile, EI wants malleable RPers, someone else wants the city-builder type who likes being a steward, or you're looking for a particular set of traits/personalities, or someone wants recruits to start up a new realm concept, we test new characters for those traits and help set things up.

The headmaster will be given the lendan stones of, effectively, every single player in the game, or if lendan towers work, we can get a set-up to allow for proper communication and RP between the tutorial school and the outside world.

Recruits come in totally useless and are shipped off as Alumni with troops, knowledge, experience, and a goal in mind: facilitating their start-up in the game and taking a load off the shoulders of those who don't like, don't want, are too inexperienced, or too busy worry about such things.

Fact is, not everyone is cut out to be a teacher - and frankly, if I may say so from experience, its a pain in the ass. If you're not totally committed, you damage a future hardcore player in multiple ways. By the time they learn through trial and error they've sat or been shuffled around semi-aimlessly, gotten bored or confused plenty of times, and had to wait for your instruction to tell their left ass cheek from the sharp end of a broadsword-wielding chain-cavalry mid-charge. (something they've often only heard of, and Gods forbid they actually know how combat works other than "take the militia from x, leave some there of course, move to y and initiate combat.")

In exchange for these services, Suitors (realms soliciting our instructional services) can strike a host of agreements in exchange for: diplomatic support, in-house combat instructors, historical data, troop shipments, resources, and the like.

This goes both ways, of course.

As such: the college serves as a tutorial for new players, a roleplay environment, a source of mercenaries, a trade hub, ambassadors-for-hire, and whatever else we can possibly think of.

It will reside upon an island, me and the ones creating it with personally stock it with a standing garrison and continuously recruit throwaway characters for training battles and simulated takeovers, all of which will take place on the island, we will use throwaway characters as fodder for newbies to interact with, while the baseline instructors remain as personality archetypes echoing different playstyles - which we can log into and interact from that particular perspective, offering a more in-depth and personal experience for new characters to enjoy.

Hell, down the road, we could branch out and create Orders/branches, with their own archetypes/RPs/histories/instructors, small neutral and static of course, and have some fun RP fodder as people find out they graduated from the same school/order/class as their commander, queen, rival, or some such.

Its something games like this sorely need, and rarely gets around to happening. Honestly, it really doesn't take much to do, either.

Check out the southwestern island off the Kenos/Arrakesh coast. That little island could house the entire starting program, hands down.

A stronghold with all the facilities to recruit troops and the necessary entourage (the "College" itself);

And test estates for new players to learn how to start, cancel, support, refute, and execute takeovers; how to trade efficiently; how to recruit, train, assign, disband, re-train, and mobilize troops; what types of troops do what, which weapons/armor/gear fulfill what role, requirement, or cost advantage; how population grows, shrinks, and stagnates; the effect of thralls on productivity and population trends; how to loot, what looting accomplishes, the potential gains of looting, the risks involved; how to perform, break, or evade blockades; the ins-and-outs of sea travel; the creation, dissolution, and absorption of (sub-)realms; how to swear and break oaths; how to obtain and refute vassals; how to designate and design one's realm; the responsibilities and privileges of various titles and positions; hashing out potential concepts for new players to enjoy, rather than throwing them out into the cold dark world with little idea of what potential they hold in store; and everything else in between.

We're going to take it for a test run if the idea catches on - though I'd really love to make this a canonical mainstay if we ever do a global soft reset.

Thoughts? If anyone likes it, I'll make a thread for it.

(Been wanting this since I started playing, honestly. Games like this need someone to break you in, and we don't have the population density of the old days where there were plenty of people both able and willing to do this in each major realm. And what of those who didn't want to join a major realm, or founded their own? They were screwed. I myself learned most lessons the hard way... Hell, I'm sure we all did.

If we can help new players learn the ropes in a friendly, orderly fashion; generating RP and mutual interest along the way, it'll be a point in the community's favor.)
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Weaver

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Re: Player-Run Tutorial-style Experience
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2016, 01:20:28 PM »
Realms should be the one doing this really. I know Lann might disagree with this, because he firmly believes that M&F should be a cutthroat experience with little apologizing needed. The game is not that hard to learn and get into. It takes time to do things. But, currently, EI is doing it. Since most new people get into contact with HoO when their land is assigned (They hold it) it's usually me or someone that tutors people into how to get into the game and what to do, and how it's done.

But I've noticed that people don't tend to stick around as long as when they have to find out this information on their own. I guess the novelty of the game expires, when someone tells you what is effective, and what is a waste of time. When a new player asks 'How many roads should I build?' all excited, and the answer is 'They really don't do much', is what kills the game for them. Of course, I tend to.. obfuscate.. a bit, but... yeah.

A tutorial style Realm, specifically, is probably a bad idea. HOWEVER, instructing people into how to engage new players into the game, is not a bad idea. Doing a crash course together on military maneuvering, for example, is probably a really good way to keep activity high and players interested in the game.

Insanegame27

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Re: Player-Run Tutorial-style Experience
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2016, 01:21:25 PM »
If I had more character slots, I would so help with this. I may even do it, a nice soul gave me 400 credits

EDIT: 1400 credits
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 01:23:05 PM by Insanegame27 »
Now I have a mental image of horses lined up in a goods factory, building things on an assembly line.

Constantine

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Re: Player-Run Tutorial-style Experience
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2016, 01:23:10 PM »
I actually think this might be a very interesting idea but a profound system of checks and balances has to be implemented.
If this academy is run by normal players there might be danger of said players rearing their charges to share their (in-game) political views. In other words, every realm has to be represented which is a bit unrealistic. It could work if it was run by a player the entire community absolutely trusts, like Andrew, but he has enough stuff on his hands as is.
So I'd like to hear your ideas as to how to prevent bias and conditioning in this playground.


On a different note, Weaver is absolutely right in that the concept does not need to be officially supported. Anyone can found a realm in some slumbering area and consistently keep up knight offers. That's all that takes.

Andrew

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Re: Player-Run Tutorial-style Experience
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2016, 01:41:09 PM »
The game has been long in need of a good tutorial--RTFM is not a good tutorial--for a long time. Some of this I had already done in Iungard and even tried to do in the Grand Fate (not that people would agree to it :().

Quote
A few players and I are hashing a concept for such a thing. A small realm that tutors, trains, and educates new players, teaches them the general history of realms, helps them find their place in the world, run simulated battles with a throwaway char or two, how to enjoy dungeons, how to access a settlement and how to run it efficiently, etc.

All the while running simultaneous RPs on both superficial levels for the inexperienced, and deeper for the intensive-RP type of players.

Once training is complete, Initiates become Alumni and "graduate":

I have concerns that people may not enjoy spending their time on tasks that don't contribute, so you may wish to give them options to skip certain things.

Quote
From here you are given a choice of realms to join, based on information garnered from the game itself. History, current events, wars, politics, play styles, themes - giving players a more educated and rounded means to find their place in the world.

Realms can petition the Institute/Collegium/Whatever for new recruits, and even set "orders" for particular types. Like, if Hawks wants a highly-active char that fits into a certain behavioral profile, EI wants malleable RPers, someone else wants the city-builder type who likes being a steward, or you're looking for a particular set of traits/personalities, or someone wants recruits to start up a new realm concept, we test new characters for those traits and help set things up.

This is actually on my TODO list for reworking the new player introduction system. I want, basically, this to replace the Knight Offer's system.

Quote
The headmaster will be given the lendan stones of, effectively, every single player in the game, or if lendan towers work, we can get a set-up to allow for proper communication and RP between the tutorial school and the outside world.

Uh.... how?

Quote
Recruits come in totally useless and are shipped off as Alumni with troops, knowledge, experience, and a goal in mind: facilitating their start-up in the game and taking a load off the shoulders of those who don't like, don't want, are too inexperienced, or too busy worry about such things.

I suggested this, and most of the rest of this to the Grand Fate previously and people voted against it, saying it'd de-value the lord-knight relationship and stuff. Hell, I made a sub-realm for this and it fell apart because no one would do anything with it.

Quote
Fact is, not everyone is cut out to be a teacher - and frankly, if I may say so from experience, its a pain in the ass. If you're not totally committed, you damage a future hardcore player in multiple ways. By the time they learn through trial and error they've sat or been shuffled around semi-aimlessly, gotten bored or confused plenty of times, and had to wait for your instruction to tell their left ass cheek from the sharp end of a broadsword-wielding chain-cavalry mid-charge. (something they've often only heard of, and Gods forbid they actually know how combat works other than "take the militia from x, leave some there of course, move to y and initiate combat.")

In exchange for these services, Suitors (realms soliciting our instructional services) can strike a host of agreements in exchange for: diplomatic support, in-house combat instructors, historical data, troop shipments, resources, and the like.

Weaver and I will look forward to destroying your combat tutorials with the future update :)

Quote
It will reside upon an island, me and the ones creating it with personally stock it with a standing garrison and continuously recruit throwaway characters for training battles and simulated takeovers, all of which will take place on the island, we will use throwaway characters as fodder for newbies to interact with, while the baseline instructors remain as personality archetypes echoing different playstyles - which we can log into and interact from that particular perspective, offering a more in-depth and personal experience for new characters to enjoy.

Which island?

Quote
And test estates for new players to learn how to start, cancel, support, refute, and execute takeovers; how to trade efficiently; how to recruit, train, assign, disband, re-train, and mobilize troops; what types of troops do what, which weapons/armor/gear fulfill what role, requirement, or cost advantage; how population grows, shrinks, and stagnates; the effect of thralls on productivity and population trends; how to loot, what looting accomplishes, the potential gains of looting, the risks involved; how to perform, break, or evade blockades; the ins-and-outs of sea travel; the creation, dissolution, and absorption of (sub-)realms; how to swear and break oaths; how to obtain and refute vassals; how to designate and design one's realm; the responsibilities and privileges of various titles and positions; hashing out potential concepts for new players to enjoy, rather than throwing them out into the cold dark world with little idea of what potential they hold in store; and everything else in between.

Please let us (Weaver, De-Legro, I) look over your lessons to make sure they're actually how the game works--I'd hate to ruin the experience because the lesson plan was bad.

Quote
We're going to take it for a test run if the idea catches on - though I'd really love to make this a canonical mainstay if we ever do a global soft reset.

Thoughts? If anyone likes it, I'll make a thread for it.

(Been wanting this since I started playing, honestly. Games like this need someone to break you in, and we don't have the population density of the old days where there were plenty of people both able and willing to do this in each major realm. And what of those who didn't want to join a major realm, or founded their own? They were screwed. I myself learned most lessons the hard way... Hell, I'm sure we all did.

If we can help new players learn the ropes in a friendly, orderly fashion; generating RP and mutual interest along the way, it'll be a point in the community's favor.)

I'm for the idea. I've tried pushing it a couple times in the Grand Fate that we should do something like this. I can personally pledge that Iungard will support this and I've some idea how you could make this an established thing. Would involve some coding work though, so no idea how fast it'd happen.

Seriously though, if you want to seriously plan this, I can create a user-group and an entire board on here for you to plan it all.
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Constantine

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Re: Player-Run Tutorial-style Experience
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2016, 01:51:34 PM »
people voted against it, saying it'd de-value the lord-knight relationship and stuff.
Hmm.. that is actually a very valid concern.
Your first suzerain is always a great influence on whether you will continue playing. On the one hand, we need to ensure noobs don't fall into sloppy hands. On the other hand, we should not limit the ability of older players to introduce others into the game because it is one of them most enjoyable parts of it.

Golden

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Re: Player-Run Tutorial-style Experience
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2016, 02:21:30 PM »



Actually this thing weren't going to be Tutorial Realm, Ehndras did present only one part of our idea, I did suggest this thing long ago to the Andrew and other people back at then, It's basically gonna be some Order that reward Players for Roleplay, with soldiers, Squires (First Ones), Artifacts, Resources, ...
People will be given Missions to do and after they finish it they earn a reward, We will do most part of Missions in Roleplay, creating some sort of choose Your Adventure or D&D or even pure Open-Ended Roleplay.




We haven't decided yet but we can do it in magic theme or non-magic one, Magic one would be people grow more skilled and more strong (reward for their roleplay) and they can do better things like summoning 10 Demons (First Ones) through Vortex or summoning 100 mortals (soldiers) and ...




Anyway it can act as Tutorial too, as first missions usually are like tutorial explaining to player what is what, and we are going to receive Missions from other realms too, like Realm X asking us to clear some dungeon nearby, or someone from Realm Y just wants to have some roleplay and create some random mission like saving some princess, so we can send new players to join those realms or act as Envoy of Order in them, this is what I had planned to do with the Guild, now will try with this New Order.


People doesn't have to come to the Order to engage in Roleplay or do interesting things, They can do it through Messages, We are planning to create huge Lendan Stone network in most of the realms, and most of the missions will be text-based anyway, they can do it through the Minions they earn by participating in Roleplay too, and there will be events going on most of the realms, like the Missions I mentioned earlier, People from all realms can ask for help of Order and give them a mission (Though Order won't accept all of the missions)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 02:26:26 PM by Golden »