Author Topic: How does this even work? Report/Bug?  (Read 1129 times)

nanakisan

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Sanctus Acies. Ad honorem, Ad mortis
    • View Profile
    • My personal art gallery
Re: How does this even work? Report/Bug?
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2016, 11:23:00 AM »
I will say this much then.

When the new server comes into effect. For the love of the gods shutdown the game, iron out the most broken of bugs. Then prepare for a new dark age to begin. Yes I am basically saying to reset the world outright. I think it's high time a new world actually started.
I am a lunatic wrapped in bacon. Sprinkled with swiss, smoothered in mustard and then buried in lettuce. I'm delicious!

Ehndras

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: +9/-8
  • Urist Tarzath, Emperor of the Children of Armok
    • View Profile
Re: How does this even work? Report/Bug?
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2016, 11:55:22 AM »
This must be done if MF is to survive. We can boot up historic lore for those of us few who still actually even care, or even use them as a basis to start some new (non/)canonical lore.

We are bleeding players, activity, losing the few people who still really care, and the entire world is pretty much held up by a few die-hards barely hanging on for dear life.

A re-release, even if its a month or two down the road with new ads set up and a few major bugs ironed out, will give players a real feeling of joining something new.

One big reason LandofLords is booming, for example, is that the game focuses you on the frontier - ie, mostly empty land with few people near you.

With the world as it is, all we're doing is filling in pre-existing slots occupied by other realms, and struggling to forge our own identity in a world dominated by the same super powers, the same players, the same tired old decadent history that rarely ever changes for the better.

A proper world-wipe would give MF a fighting chance at a proper community start.

As it is... We're losing more than we're gaining, and our gains are pointless because people will just keep getting bored, frustrated, and tired - and then promptly leave. Every player that leaves drops the morale of remaining players as they go, and as they say in Dwarf Fortress...

The death spiral ensues.

Mors Principium Est - Death is only the beginning

Golden

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 38
  • Karma: +0/-2
  • Aureus
    • View Profile
    • Might and Fealty Unofficial Discord Guild
Re: How does this even work? Report/Bug?
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2016, 12:00:05 PM »
Well I don't think our problem is really already existing realms, as most of them are slumbering anyway, but I accept with map reset or at least reducing the map, I think our problem is having so huge map, everyone sitting in their corner of world not having interaction with other realms, if everyone weren't landowners and were knights instead a lot of things had went better, so Overall I think much smaller map would do us a lot of good.

Ehndras

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: +9/-8
  • Urist Tarzath, Emperor of the Children of Armok
    • View Profile
Re: How does this even work? Report/Bug?
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2016, 12:02:36 PM »
Honestly... I didn't used to think so, but opening the NW just proved it. What we needed was open space to expand and interact, but once it got locked down, we were too far from the world to do much of anything really. Travel times from nw to the south are utterly insane, so it just forced us to be insular.
Mors Principium Est - Death is only the beginning

Ehndras

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: +9/-8
  • Urist Tarzath, Emperor of the Children of Armok
    • View Profile
Re: How does this even work? Report/Bug?
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2016, 12:05:18 PM »
So I have to agree. Based on my experience in so many sandbox, RP, rpg, and strategy-war games over the years, we could benefit from a solid, smaller clean start, and then gradual expansion. Starting off with massive space, too much for us to properly interact, is just too much.

Its just too much time-consuming boring finger-twiddling of people building up and then falling asleep.

We need change, and we need a clear canvas to build off of. Anything less is just half-assing it and continuing this pattern of decay.
Mors Principium Est - Death is only the beginning

Andrew

  • Game Master / Lead Developer
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1683
  • Karma: +72/-6
  • Mildly Amused
    • View Profile
    • Lemuria Community Fan Site
Re: How does this even work? Report/Bug?
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2016, 12:16:24 PM »
I will say this much then.

When the new server comes into effect. For the love of the gods shutdown the game, iron out the most broken of bugs. Then prepare for a new dark age to begin. Yes I am basically saying to reset the world outright. I think it's high time a new world actually started.

No.
Standing for the creation of interesting things since Year 1, Week 5, Day 4.
Favorite cold beverage: Strawberry Shake
My hobbies: Fixing computers, video games, anime, manga, some other stuff, sleep (in no particular order)

Weaver

  • The Lost
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
  • Karma: +52/-39
    • View Profile
Re: How does this even work? Report/Bug?
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2016, 12:24:11 PM »
They might be on to something here, Andrew. Though for a proper reset, we'd need proper marketing, that stuff is not easy to do. We can't shut down the service in the meantime either. There is no need. The game is doing fine, despite the incidents. I assure you it's just your distorted perception due to recent events.

Recall the Imperial Civil War and the Ascalon v Hawks war debacles. It never affected the game population in a meaningful way. We lost players, and we gained players. I know I've always been in favor of creating a smaller world and replacing the current one with it. But we need to prepare properly before we can even think about doing that. It's not something that's done over a weekend.

Ehndras

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: +9/-8
  • Urist Tarzath, Emperor of the Children of Armok
    • View Profile
Re: How does this even work? Report/Bug?
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2016, 12:30:46 PM »
Weaver said it best.
Mors Principium Est - Death is only the beginning

Andrew

  • Game Master / Lead Developer
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1683
  • Karma: +72/-6
  • Mildly Amused
    • View Profile
    • Lemuria Community Fan Site
Re: How does this even work? Report/Bug?
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2016, 12:53:06 PM »
I said that specifically as it's own message for a reason. Tom will never approve a map reset for the same reason I will never agree to a map reset. It flies in the face of everyone who has ever contributed to this game because
  • Might & Fealty is sold as a "persistent world"
  • it was sold that way to people who raised 6,548 for Tom to develop it
  • it was sold that way to the 161 people who have ever paid for part of the game
  • it was sold that way to the 31 active paying users of the game
  • it was sold that way to the 265 active users of the game
  • it was sold that way to the people who have created 8572 characters in 732 realms that have built 35,659 buildings, 7,169 features, 6,764 road segments, and made 4,874 trade deals over the course of 3,957 turns over the 2.5+ years in the game
  • it was sold that way to the guy who convinced Tom to let him manage the subscription income from the game so he could both pay for the server and additional marketing and work on the game and who has, over the course of this game put an additional $563.07 of his own funds into advertising the game so that an additional 5,876 people would take a look at the game and consider playing it.
This is not the first time someone abused how the game works to their own agenda. And each time it gets fixed, and the turns keep ticking, because that's how the game is sold, as "an entirely player-driven, persistent world where history is being made, not just replayed." And that's how it has happened every time a major exploit has been abused, and how it will continue to happen.

I have 3 accounts, all paying, to include the GM account I have, which have over the course of my playing cost me 398, and because I not only enjoy the game but want it to succeed because I believe in the concept I paid $563.07 without even asking Tom, to start a google ad campaign for it, and then learned PHP to develop it, and then started asking Tom the serious questions about the future of the game and where it was going. And when he said he wanted to give it to the community, I took point on getting a server for us from a company that operates mostly in a language I don't even know how to read so the transition would be as smooth as possible, and then convinced him that letting me manage the subscription income, depriving him of one of the two projects I know actually generates an income for him (outside of his job), so that I could help push this game forward.

So, yes, the game has been rocky, and it has had rough patches, but no, the game will not be reset.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 01:14:06 PM by Andrew »
Standing for the creation of interesting things since Year 1, Week 5, Day 4.
Favorite cold beverage: Strawberry Shake
My hobbies: Fixing computers, video games, anime, manga, some other stuff, sleep (in no particular order)

Andrew

  • Game Master / Lead Developer
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1683
  • Karma: +72/-6
  • Mildly Amused
    • View Profile
    • Lemuria Community Fan Site
Re: How does this even work? Report/Bug?
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2016, 01:13:32 PM »
They might be on to something here, Andrew. Though for a proper reset, we'd need proper marketing, that stuff is not easy to do. We can't shut down the service in the meantime either. There is no need. The game is doing fine, despite the incidents. I assure you it's just your distorted perception due to recent events.

My distorted perception? I just said that bluntly to make a point. Even with people making umpteen multi accounts the player count is pretty consistent. I mean, even if you factor them out of the sub-200 user count the game had around 2.3 months ago, the player count is, at the least, stable. That's counting anyone who recently deleted an account. If anything, it's probably the highest it's been in 2.3 months, maybe the last 5.4 months (the last time the user account was this high, for the record).

When the new server comes into effect. For the love of the gods shutdown the game, iron out the most broken of bugs. Then prepare for a new dark age to begin. Yes I am basically saying to reset the world outright. I think it's high time a new world actually started.

I've previously explained why I'm against a map reset (and Tom said no and he legally owns the game), but I am not against changes to the map or creating a separate, character-controlled (that is, per-user char-limits) island for people to play with, and the new server, when it comes online, will include a fix to this, as well as at least one or two long-standing issues.

Honestly... I didn't used to think so, but opening the NW just proved it. What we needed was open space to expand and interact, but once it got locked down, we were too far from the world to do much of anything really. Travel times from nw to the south are utterly insane, so it just forced us to be insular.

You have a messaging system that works across the entire expanse of the game. If you're too far away to do something, then re-evalutate what you want to do, start doing things at home. Not everything has to involve whatever Weaver is doing to the Imperium or what I'm doing to the Republic. Make an interesting realm that has neat roleplays and messages, share a few on the forum, and watch your new knight count explode as people get interested. Work to make a realm so interesting that people talk about it and things will happen. It's not easy, but it's doable.

Failing that, stop trying to conquer the world and actually have inter-realm politics. I've been trying to get more people into the Grand Fate so I can see if intra-realm (that inside the realm) politics work on a larger scale and it took Artos Flambard to get us anywhere near that. Still don't know if it'll last, but I'm actually happy about what he did because of it--even with how pissed off Vanessa was for a bit.

Weaver said it best.

He does that, sometimes.

This must be done if MF is to survive. We can boot up historic lore for those of us few who still actually even care, or even use them as a basis to start some new (non/)canonical lore.

We are bleeding players, activity, losing the few people who still really care, and the entire world is pretty much held up by a few die-hards barely hanging on for dear life.

A re-release, even if its a month or two down the road with new ads set up and a few major bugs ironed out, will give players a real feeling of joining something new.
As it is... We're losing more than we're gaining, and our gains are pointless because people will just keep getting bored, frustrated, and tired - and then promptly leave. Every player that leaves drops the morale of remaining players as they go, and as they say in Dwarf Fortress...

The death spiral ensues.

I would like to know your references for these.

One big reason LandofLords is booming, for example, is that the game focuses you on the frontier - ie, mostly empty land with few people near you.

I am not against a massive map expansion, but there's a way I want to implement it that I haven't quite worked out yet. And once that happens, we'll have options for having an established realm, or a frontier realm, or even a fight-the-GM-realm, or, hell, a fight-the-NPC's realm.

Weaver and I have plans, that range from expanding the map, to making equipment unique based on where it was made and who it was made by, to adding a tactical combat system, to overhauling the actual battle mechanics of units fighting each other, to allowing you to eject dead realms or revive dead sub-realms, to having actual in-game capitals, to a whole host of other stuff you can see here and here.
Standing for the creation of interesting things since Year 1, Week 5, Day 4.
Favorite cold beverage: Strawberry Shake
My hobbies: Fixing computers, video games, anime, manga, some other stuff, sleep (in no particular order)

Weaver

  • The Lost
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
  • Karma: +52/-39
    • View Profile
Re: How does this even work? Report/Bug?
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2016, 01:15:19 PM »
No, I meant specifically those who got hurt by the recent incident. They're understandably not pleased with how things are. The game does need an improvement over the quality of life side of things- but I think that feeling is amplified by their recent losses.

Andrew

  • Game Master / Lead Developer
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1683
  • Karma: +72/-6
  • Mildly Amused
    • View Profile
    • Lemuria Community Fan Site
Re: How does this even work? Report/Bug?
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2016, 01:29:02 PM »
No, I meant specifically those who got hurt by the recent incident. They're understandably not pleased with how things are. The game does need an improvement over the quality of life side of things- but I think that feeling is amplified by their recent losses.

So you meant to say, "I assure you it's just your their distorted perception due to recent events."?

That said, I do understand that people are justifiably angry over this, but it needs to be clear there will not be a map reset. That said, I'm open to other map things. Making a remote island that's not normally accessible, I'm open to. Making a drastically larger world with a perpetual frontier, I'm open to. Hell, I'm open to a lot of things, but resetting 2.5 years of gameplay made by people who have made 1,954 accounts, is not one of them.
Standing for the creation of interesting things since Year 1, Week 5, Day 4.
Favorite cold beverage: Strawberry Shake
My hobbies: Fixing computers, video games, anime, manga, some other stuff, sleep (in no particular order)

Golden

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 38
  • Karma: +0/-2
  • Aureus
    • View Profile
    • Might and Fealty Unofficial Discord Guild
Re: How does this even work? Report/Bug?
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2016, 02:02:32 PM »
So you meant to say, "I assure you it's just your their distorted perception due to recent events."?

That said, I do understand that people are justifiably angry over this, but it needs to be clear there will not be a map reset. That said, I'm open to other map things. Making a remote island that's not normally accessible, I'm open to. Making a drastically larger world with a perpetual frontier, I'm open to. Hell, I'm open to a lot of things, but resetting 2.5 years of gameplay made by people who have made 1,954 accounts, is not one of them.


Yeah some new Island that is not accessible from main land would do good too, though to stop people abusing and spamming it, the characters created on it should be limited, like one character for each player, and they shouldn't be able to relate it to their mainland characters (Because some abuse may happen.) and totally be different from main characters of player, just like the bandits.

Andrew

  • Game Master / Lead Developer
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1683
  • Karma: +72/-6
  • Mildly Amused
    • View Profile
    • Lemuria Community Fan Site
Re: How does this even work? Report/Bug?
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2016, 02:15:55 PM »

Yeah some new Island that is not accessible from main land would do good too, though to stop people abusing and spamming it, the characters created on it should be limited, like one character for each player, and they shouldn't be able to relate it to their mainland characters (Because some abuse may happen.) and totally be different from main characters of player, just like the bandits.

I could probably clone parts of the bandit system to do something like this. Of course, I'd also have to figure out how to work the map too, which will be loads of fun stuff. Any here experienced with QGIS?
Standing for the creation of interesting things since Year 1, Week 5, Day 4.
Favorite cold beverage: Strawberry Shake
My hobbies: Fixing computers, video games, anime, manga, some other stuff, sleep (in no particular order)

Ehndras

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: +9/-8
  • Urist Tarzath, Emperor of the Children of Armok
    • View Profile
Re: How does this even work? Report/Bug?
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2016, 04:45:04 PM »
That COMPLETELY changes things. Dramatically expanding the map would be very, very cool. A new island a-la Battlemaster? A specially sort of awesome.

I wasn't aware those were options. It'd be kind of like how BM has the old, original island, and then all the new servers, and some players like one, or the other, or have characters on all of them.

A proper archipelago would be glorious.

Hell, different map configurations - period - would be glorious.

A new landmass... That would be... Divine.
Mors Principium Est - Death is only the beginning