Author Topic: Would You Pay to Play?  (Read 16920 times)

Tom

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Re: Would You Pay to Play?
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2013, 10:06:46 PM »
To bring everyone up to speed, a few items that have already been decided and are no longer up for discussion:

  • There will be absolutely no Pay2Win aspects in the game, absolutely no in-game advantages of any kind that you can buy with real-world money.
  • The two sources of revenue will be subscriptions and what's called "vanity items" in the industry - a different skin, a different look for your town, a banner for your family, things like that.

Let me elaborate on the subscription model and the why:
I believe in fair and transparent relations, whether it is private or business. Most so-called free-to-play games are actually trying to scam you, and yes, I use that word intentionally. They present themselves as "free", but the reality is that the business model is so successful because the average player will spend more money on them then in a subscription or buy model. I will not be scamming my players.
The second reason is that a subscription model solves an incredible amount of problems, from multi-cheating in all variants to having to deal with 90% of new knights going inactive after a day all the time. It will be a better game experience for everyone.


Penchant

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Re: Would You Pay to Play?
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2013, 12:43:02 AM »
One suggestion I have is allowing the first month of M&F to be free. Its the "demo" of the game.

Hype rarely gets me to buy a game I have never played before nor its company. Hype gets me interested, but I usually don't end up buying a game by a company I have played any of its games before without playing either a demo or just playing on someone else's game first if its a console. CK2 for instance has had plenty of hype on BM forums and irc which got me interested, but I never planned on buying it until I played the demo.

Thus, I suggest giving some kind of demo for any game, in this case simply being able to play a character for a month for free.

Tom

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Re: Would You Pay to Play?
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2013, 12:38:25 PM »
One suggestion I have is allowing the first month of M&F to be free. Its the "demo" of the game.

This is very, very, very difficult. I can think of a dozen ways to abuse this without needing to think. I know that people are used to free stuff and are very reluctant to pay anything, but I can not at this time imagine a way to have a demo without utterly destroying the entire game. I am serious. Give this some thought and you will agree. 90% of your knight offers being taken up by people who disappear after a day. Hundreds of dead-on-arrival nobles running around everywhere. It just can't work in a game like this.

What I'm thinking about is allowing players to buy just one month, no subscription, to test it out, maybe even at a reduced price, before signing up for the whole deal.

Another thing I'm thinking about is "friend codes", where every subscriber gets a certain amount of friend codes, say one per month, and can give them to friends to test the game for an even lower fee for a month. This limits the number of testers, and thus reduces the problems outlined above. And if one of your friends becomes a subscriber, you'll get some bonus time added to your subscription or something.



Mookzen

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Re: Would You Pay to Play?
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2013, 01:27:23 PM »
Yeah, agreed, traditional demos won't work. We need to tread very carefully here.

Peri

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Re: Would You Pay to Play?
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2013, 01:46:24 PM »
One suggestion I have is allowing the first month of M&F to be free. Its the "demo" of the game.

This is very, very, very difficult. I can think of a dozen ways to abuse this without needing to think. I know that people are used to free stuff and are very reluctant to pay anything, but I can not at this time imagine a way to have a demo without utterly destroying the entire game. I am serious. Give this some thought and you will agree. 90% of your knight offers being taken up by people who disappear after a day. Hundreds of dead-on-arrival nobles running around everywhere. It just can't work in a game like this.

What I'm thinking about is allowing players to buy just one month, no subscription, to test it out, maybe even at a reduced price, before signing up for the whole deal.

Another thing I'm thinking about is "friend codes", where every subscriber gets a certain amount of friend codes, say one per month, and can give them to friends to test the game for an even lower fee for a month. This limits the number of testers, and thus reduces the problems outlined above. And if one of your friends becomes a subscriber, you'll get some bonus time added to your subscription or something.


You probably know this already, but in EVE online there is a 15-days free trial account to test the game. The way they made sure this trials don't ruin the game is to severely limit the game experience and player-to-player interaction of the free accounts. Free account basically can't really interact with the rest of the world and, for this reason, don't affect it in a detrimental way.


I don't think this model could work in M&F, but, well, I just wanted to give you this info.

Mookzen

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Re: Would You Pay to Play?
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2013, 01:51:43 PM »

You probably know this already, but in EVE online there is a 15-days free trial account to test the game. The way they made sure this trials don't ruin the game is to severely limit the game experience and player-to-player interaction of the free accounts. Free account basically can't really interact with the rest of the world and, for this reason, don't affect it in a detrimental way.


I don't think this model could work in M&F, but, well, I just wanted to give you this info.


You are correct in assuming it won't, in contrast to EVE, everything you do in M&F actually has consequences and those consequences are basically the game, you can't run infinite NPC missions to conjure up money for your virtual pocket and then develop your character with that, there are no skills to train, no army dispensers. Tom is right, demos will kill the game. In the current implementation there is -literally- nothing to do if you limit demos severely enough to not fark up the game world. Well, I guess they could set some travel routs and troll people via messages a little for the lulz...
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 01:59:11 PM by Mookzen »

Penchant

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Re: Would You Pay to Play?
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2013, 03:55:21 PM »
In its current incarnation, I know I will not be playing Might and Fealty. I love the games concept and almost everything about it. What I don't care for is those with plenty of time earlier on getting everything. All of the larger realms have players having about 8 characters with 5 or more estates while I look down their hierarchy they have knights that are other players with only 1 estate or some having none. The lack of players distributing their estates while the game provides no reason to if you have enough time to waste makes this seem like it will just be whoever has the most time to kill on this game are the most successful while the vassals of these players simply end up with little to nothing. I will get a more reasoning by my current thoughts in a bit.

Vita

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Re: Would You Pay to Play?
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2013, 06:34:17 PM »
One suggestion I have is allowing the first month of M&F to be free. Its the "demo" of the game.

Hype rarely gets me to buy a game I have never played before nor its company. Hype gets me interested, but I usually don't end up buying a game by a company I have played any of its games before without playing either a demo or just playing on someone else's game first if its a console. CK2 for instance has had plenty of hype on BM forums and irc which got me interested, but I never planned on buying it until I played the demo.

Thus, I suggest giving some kind of demo for any game, in this case simply being able to play a character for a month for free.

This will make it too easy to cheat with multis and be too difficult to restrict to per person. The *best* way I could see this implemented, is a separate 'newbie' island geared just for people getting a chance to test it out, but all accounts on  island end after 30 days so you don't get a chance to establish 'your history'. Any multiiing would be, relatively, pointless since it couldn't actually affect the for-pay game process. Those people too cheap, but with time, to spend on it would probably stil go. The 'newbie' island multi would probably be one of rotating accounts, being sure to  assign inheritance to the newer account before 30 days.

Indirik

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Re: Would You Pay to Play?
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2013, 07:12:09 PM »
Nobody would play on the newbie island. Except maybe the multi-trollers. Not exactly a good way to entice new players to ante up their hard-earned cash for the real game.

Mookzen

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Re: Would You Pay to Play?
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2013, 07:21:25 PM »
This game has a staggeringly high potential for trolling in general. With great freedom comes great... trolling, and great paraphilia.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 09:46:29 PM by Mookzen »

Fulco

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Re: Would You Pay to Play?
« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2013, 09:35:32 PM »
Quote
What I'm thinking about is allowing players to buy just one month, no subscription, to test it out, maybe even at a reduced price, before signing up for the whole deal.


Pay to try something out? That won't get you many subscriptions, you want to make it as easy as possible for people to try a game, reward them for trying and staying active in the beginning actually. Else your player base won't grow.


And personally, I'm against having to pay to play a game. And I doubt that I will play this game if it comes out if it will cost me money each week/month with having to keep playing to not lose everything. Really, go for something like extra characters, where you pay to be able to play more, but keep the first character free. Yes, this might get you multies, but that's life of a browsergame.

Valast

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Re: Would You Pay to Play?
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2013, 09:53:05 PM »
Well... I already respected you Tom but you have it more over now from your stand on honesty...and I agree with it.

Unfortunately it also means that the game will have a very slow start up.  After the initial BM induced influx of players it will slow down to a trickle.  That is a good thing in the long run for honest player base...but a bad thing for making good profit quickly.  But I do not know your desire, intent, or need...

I do have one suggestion on trying to get new players that may be able to help stop the trash at the door... Offer friend codes like you mentioned, but also let players buy a friend a month.  Lets say we are paying 10million dollars a month to play and we have a friend we think would like to join... let us pay 2million bucks to buy our friend a month to get into it.  If they like it they can pick up the tab from then on.

They get a trial, we get a friend playing with us, you get a new player and a chance at a new subscriber.

Tom

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Re: Would You Pay to Play?
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2013, 12:13:39 AM »
Definitely. Gifts work in many other games.

Paul

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Re: Would You Pay to Play?
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2013, 08:22:22 PM »
Why not just make the friend codes work as 15 day free trials?


Give each paying player 2 friend codes a month. If one of the people getting the trial pays for the game, it gives the original player a discount on their next month or two (maybe 50% off the next two months, so effectively a free month but only if you pay for two more). It would be limited, and you would only get the codes if you are paying. And they would only work for new accounts. Seems like it could work that way.


The subscription could give you points towards buying cosmetic items too, and maybe some bonus points every month for every referred friend that is currently paying for the game. The cosmetic stuff could be like any time name changes for characters, heraldry, changing the appearance of towns, renaming towns, etc. It could all be available occasionally with the points from a subscription or something a player can pay a little extra for if he wanted to use them a lot.




As far as if I'd pay to play: I wouldn't pay to play in the current state (Alpha) but with the ideas of the game realized and polished a bit I would.


One thing that would be nice bit of polish is a way to queue actions for people who aren't online when turns happen. Like say I want to march to a town and attack it. I could tell it to go there and attack. It would travel there (1st turn), begin attack (2nd turn), and carry out the battle (3rd turn). It would also be nice if you could put a conditional order on the result of that battle. Like IF I defeat all defenders, claim control of the town, recruit 5 peasants to keep someone else from claiming it, and defend the town against attack. ELSE IF the attack fails run away back to your city for reinforcements. That way if you were online before the battle happened but couldn't be back on for 12 hours you could be sure that it wouldn't just leave the door open for someone else to grab the town. Or say build X building, then once that's done build Y building using the same division of labor. Or start recruiting X medium infantry once the heavy infantry are done training.

Penchant

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Re: Would You Pay to Play?
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2013, 08:44:23 PM »
Tom has stated, which is completely true, the issue with friend codes is the massive loss of troops from people accepting knight offers or simply being given troops and then when the trial is over the troops are basically just lost.