Author Topic: Examples of ugly play  (Read 2853 times)

Arx

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Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2016, 07:30:57 PM »
I think we can all agree on mechanics being abused here without making it a personal feud.
Double evades - bad. Assigning soldiers to an enemy character - bad. Let's not do that.

+1 to this.

stueblahblah

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Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2016, 07:53:49 PM »
There no thing like double evade, as regards to me, I press evade button and leave the mechanics to do what is intended. The fact that someone will hang around timer and reengage minutes after each successful evade is another story.

In times when TO together with evade was allowed, what De-Legro is pointing at, that had minor influence on real game event, as most of those TO actually had length like 4 rl months and had some meaning only for roleplaying reasons.

I did it as it was the only way to do something there and out in protest against elements of game mechanics that seem to encourage bullying and trolling, that will certainly not help game atmosphere.

As regards to stories, some of my chars were tied to these lands before those bully-liking guys even joined the game. And it is because of stories why they are staying here. It is described in other posts and I will not repeat it here.

Evasion rate is too high for 100-soldiers troops, it's not to high for small troops, which as scouts should have good ability to discourage absurdly larger troops to chase them. That can be seen at pile of killed chars in my family history, while none of them is ever used for troop blocking, battle engagement messing, which is actually the only way how they can be abused by those who want to "win by all means".

This is actually story about battle of concepts "winning by all means" vs. "making some in-game story by all means".

De-Legro

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Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2016, 12:23:22 AM »
There no thing like double evade, as regards to me, I press evade button and leave the mechanics to do what is intended. The fact that someone will hang around timer and reengage minutes after each successful evade is another story.

In times when TO together with evade was allowed, what De-Legro is pointing at, that had minor influence on real game event, as most of those TO actually had length like 4 rl months and had some meaning only for roleplaying reasons.

I did it as it was the only way to do something there and out in protest against elements of game mechanics that seem to encourage bullying and trolling, that will certainly not help game atmosphere.

As regards to stories, some of my chars were tied to these lands before those bully-liking guys even joined the game. And it is because of stories why they are staying here. It is described in other posts and I will not repeat it here.

Evasion rate is too high for 100-soldiers troops, it's not to high for small troops, which as scouts should have good ability to discourage absurdly larger troops to chase them. That can be seen at pile of killed chars in my family history, while none of them is ever used for troop blocking, battle engagement messing, which is actually the only way how they can be abused by those who want to "win by all means".

This is actually story about battle of concepts "winning by all means" vs. "making some in-game story by all means".

Given that you family was granted that land by Elysium, no you family has not been there longer. Before that most of the land belonged to a now defunct Hawks subrealm.
He who was once known as Blackfyre

stueblahblah

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Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2016, 08:31:34 PM »
That's not correct, actually, those lands were initially taken from dying North Woods and Redgorge, and parts of Redgorge joined us at that time.

Velrun

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Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2016, 10:13:56 PM »
That's not correct, actually, those lands were initially taken from dying North Woods and Redgorge, and parts of Redgorge joined us at that time.



by Valent Balkopan on 2-56-2 (August 10, 2014 11:54)
Greetings, Sir Fraro,
I heard from my brother that you would want some nobles to help you in managing your many estates, therefore I would offer you my services.


by Valent Balkopan on 2-56-4 (August 10, 2014 22:06)
Here I am, L0rd Fraro, in this well-build place.
I would take your advice on what settlements you would recommend to be taken.


by Fraro Ruhi on 2-56-5 (August 11, 2014 01:48)
Look to the regions of Abetorn, Nuku Alora and Thaplurny



by Benvan Balkopan on 3-51-3 (November 3, 2014 02:03)
Be well, respectable Three Kings!
We always look at our southern neighborhood as a friendly place, and were it not King Fraro's help, it is possible that we would not have existed at all, which gives even more meaning to such feelings.
During history we had number of issues with North Woods. In our founding, we took command of Raijivis, which was abandoned village in anarchy. Duke Torr took it from us by force afterwards, having no care for any diplomatic talk.
Later we manage to retake village again and currently Duke Torr attempted with new attack. We defended ourselves from him and his vassals and took few regions from him in counterattack.\
In times when we expected to reach peace with them, we heard news on Duke Torr's death. As there are many our nobles nearby to scout the situation, it was soon clear that North Woods has no capable leadership to continue with anything.
All their regions remained contested. I would urge you, hereby, honorable Kings, to recognize our few acquired holdings, and in return we will support your taking of all North Woods lands - it means 6 or 7 regions, including with strong town of Cae Maesteg. Together with that there is one independent region taken by our clan member in vicinity, which will gladly join strong realm able to provide prosperity.
It is my hope that such an agreement will be recognized as fair one, as it gives recognition to your undoubted strength, while giving us modest opportunity to further prosper.\
It is possibly clear that we could use time when there was clearly no real defense of North Woods regions to take majority of our lands, and we could have done it without too much effort. Such possibility was not used at all, as we are aware that our strength cannot support such bold claims and we would rather support strong friend than swallow what we cannot digest.


by Valent Balkopan on 3-8-1 (August 28, 2014 01:14)
Be well, honorable Lord Fraro!
I have come here to establish route to supply initial tribute to you for all help you provided us with.
We are far from being rebuilt, but initial stabilization of our regions enabled me to travel and make first supply that will be gradually increased afterwards.
Unfortunately, so far we included just two regions to our realm. Lord Kyran, who helped us a lot as well, still did not join our cause with his Thaplurny and Trearow, so we cannot affect tribute from that source.
Anyhow I will sent 25 food now if you would order these pesky guards to let me in.
If you send any return shipment, I will be able to arrange new deals at later time.
In case that you have any excess wood, we would be able to reconstruct much faster and resume food tribute, together with very favorable rate to metal. Any unit of wealth would help too.
If you cannot afford it, we will send metal anyhow if you needed it, in tribute to our friendship.


SUMMARY
Elysium was there first. Elysium granted you lands from my own holdings to get you started. Elysium then supported your claims to further holdings in the east. You paid tribute in return for both the initial troops and right to take my land and form a new realm. Pretty simple isn't it. Your family does not predate Elysium, nor for that matter does Elysium predate my own claims in the area. I have held The Fang long before Orion started to take slumbering lands to form Elysium.

stueblahblah

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Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2016, 12:43:12 AM »
Lol,

Besaisalida was our first region which belonged to North Woods. Than Trestrimont and Hasorny, taken by some troops given by Fraro and some given by Kyran, who later joined us. I believe those two belonged to United Estates. Than we took Abetorn, that belonged to Redgorge. None of that belonged to Hawks, but to some large realm centered around Redgorge river.

In those time I believe Elysium was formed and allowed us to take Raijivis while Elysium was taking other lands from North Woods.

I will not bother to waste time and check messages, I have no time for that, but conclusion was very clear, those characters are about the same age as Elysium, and there are just few players of Elysium who are alive since that time, if all of those new ones are not clones owned by old players.

I hate to spend time on it here, that was not subject of this thread, but was forced in the middle of the thread. Letters are posted like it is some court process. If you put one tenth of effort with such communication within game, it would be much better to play it. This just shows how forums suck life out of game.

De-Legro

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Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2016, 03:09:10 AM »
Lol,

Besaisalida was our first region which belonged to North Woods. Than Trestrimont and Hasorny, taken by some troops given by Fraro and some given by Kyran, who later joined us. I believe those two belonged to United Estates. Than we took Abetorn, that belonged to Redgorge. None of that belonged to Hawks, but to some large realm centered around Redgorge river.

In those time I believe Elysium was formed and allowed us to take Raijivis while Elysium was taking other lands from North Woods.

I will not bother to waste time and check messages, I have no time for that, but conclusion was very clear, those characters are about the same age as Elysium, and there are just few players of Elysium who are alive since that time, if all of those new ones are not clones owned by old players.

I hate to spend time on it here, that was not subject of this thread, but was forced in the middle of the thread. Letters are posted like it is some court process. If you put one tenth of effort with such communication within game, it would be much better to play it. This just shows how forums suck life out of game.


How does that make sense. North Woods was part of Armiais, until after Elysium had also split from Armiais. So you are referring to taking land from Elysium's then sovereign realm. Pretty much all the core land holders from the founding of Elysium are still active, of course as Elysium has grown so too has the number of land holders, necessitating recruiting new characters. Then again how many of your characters from that age survive?
He who was once known as Blackfyre

stueblahblah

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Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2016, 01:13:11 PM »
You are dragging that endlessly beyond any reasonable point. I clearly described that I was not taking any land from Elysium, it is that later-founder of Elysium provided me with some troops to take some lands of Ariamis and North Woods before Elysium was even founded. And the other nobles who did not belong to that circle also helped. How many times I have to repeat that?

The more attempts to bully, the more resistance I will provide. I would not even refer to how long my characters are around if I did not notice OOC bullying around how my characters have to be "rooted out", which is disturbed kind of expressing when put in OOC conversation. Yes, some of them are killed but their successors continue they story, because they have in-game story, and hanging around the clock will not help against that.

I have no much pleasure to play with bullies but has some interest in game and hope that adequate tweaks in mechanics will mitigate bullying over time.

Weaver

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Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2016, 02:49:33 PM »
Are you referring by resistance to all those non-aligned Nobles passing through our lands to defend Besai? The Nobles who have no allegiance, or have allegiance to Lowlands, Terra Vigila and what not?

I'd call that the prime example of ugly play. If a Noble of any of my lands did that, I would execute him on the spot, no questions asked.

De-Legro

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Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2016, 02:08:44 AM »
You are dragging that endlessly beyond any reasonable point. I clearly described that I was not taking any land from Elysium, it is that later-founder of Elysium provided me with some troops to take some lands of Ariamis and North Woods before Elysium was even founded. And the other nobles who did not belong to that circle also helped. How many times I have to repeat that?

The more attempts to bully, the more resistance I will provide. I would not even refer to how long my characters are around if I did not notice OOC bullying around how my characters have to be "rooted out", which is disturbed kind of expressing when put in OOC conversation. Yes, some of them are killed but their successors continue they story, because they have in-game story, and hanging around the clock will not help against that.

I have no much pleasure to play with bullies but has some interest in game and hope that adequate tweaks in mechanics will mitigate bullying over time.

But you are oh so happy to discount their stories, their time and claims from being in the area since before they founded Elysium. Happy to discount the fact that most of the issues you face in the south arise from an interaction, that is right part of an evolving story. If Elysium was OOC against you, you would have no holdings in the south, and your realms in the north would be under siege. Time and time again you are oh so happy to ascribe OOC motives for other people, when perfectly fine IC motives exist. Has Elysium relentlessly targeted your AD characters? No they have been allowed to withdraw after every battle then same as any other character from that realm. They could easily permalock you in battle, which no doubt they would if there was a OOC grudge.

What there is right now is one of the few decent grudges in the game. Your family complain about Elysium as untrust worthy barbarians constantly, and are starting to convert others to that view. And Elysium consider most of your family to be annoying gnats whom are free to do whatever they want, so long as it is not near their borders.
He who was once known as Blackfyre

stueblahblah

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Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2016, 02:14:04 PM »
I see that you tend to move complete IC story to OOC forum, the only story which exists is my story for which I never had partner in Hawks as they know nothing but sending vulgar offenses.

However, I did find other people in-game who accepted in-game stories, and now you want to degrade all that by trying to move complete discussion to OOC domain.

I will not accept that at all, but man, do you realize that you are actively degrading the game and our efforts to make some in-game stories?!

Velrun

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Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2016, 05:17:54 PM »
I see that you tend to move complete IC story to OOC forum, the only story which exists is my story for which I never had partner in Hawks as they know nothing but sending vulgar offenses.

However, I did find other people in-game who accepted in-game stories, and now you want to degrade all that by trying to move complete discussion to OOC domain.

I will not accept that at all, but man, do you realize that you are actively degrading the game and our efforts to make some in-game stories?!


Is not the IC vulgarity part of the story? Or do actions within the game not constitute a story? Do we need to write RP's before it can be a story? A Partner in Hawks why? Do stories require OOC collaboration? Do they require complete knowledge of the other parties agenda and history? I always thought they could easily evolve organically through IC interaction. In RL we rarely know the truth behind another actions, I don't see why it would be necessary in game. Words are said, actions are taken, both sides establish a point of view regarding the cause and the eventual outcome. Sounds a lot like a story to me.

Lann

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Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2016, 02:14:11 PM »
I see that you tend to move complete IC story to OOC forum, the only story which exists is my story for which I never had partner in Hawks as they know nothing but sending vulgar offenses.

However, I did find other people in-game who accepted in-game stories, and now you want to degrade all that by trying to move complete discussion to OOC domain.

I will not accept that at all, but man, do you realize that you are actively degrading the game and our efforts to make some in-game stories?!


"Degrading" the game...?  How?  Far as I can see, Hawks promotes the game quite a bit. 

And as far as I can tell, your characters are reaping the consequences for their own actions.  Don't blame others for your stories not going the way you want.  These in-game actions play out the way they do because there are a lot of different characters with different motives and different responses to events going on around them.  And you don't get the right to sit there and act like your stories are more valid than theirs.  You don't get to impose rules on other people's playstyles or tell them how they can and can't RP or what actions are or are not valid.  You don't own this world.  You're just a part of it, like any other character.  And when you make a wrong-headed move that prompts an in-character response, that's just the way it goes.  It's the same for any of us and is only fair. 
« Last Edit: March 14, 2016, 02:18:41 PM by Lann »

stueblahblah

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Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2016, 02:26:23 PM »
It is visible to everyone who is spreading OOC propaganda, this thread is open for the very specific subject which can be seen at the beginning of the thread. It discusses specific actions only, not at all in-game politics.

However, the subject was diverted into passionate OOC playing.

It was my mistake,yes, that I went on confuting OOC propaganda that was quickly implanted into topic, without any relation to it, and now I see that there are people who would like fight large, endless propaganda wars through this thread, or any other OOC means.

Without me, I would say, prepare some message within game instead of putting your energy into "forum playing".

Weaver

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Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2016, 02:32:53 PM »
Honestly, I don't think anyone gives a damn enough about you to fight anything.