Author Topic: Examples of ugly play  (Read 3056 times)

stueblahblah

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 294
  • Karma: +9/-35
    • View Profile
Examples of ugly play
« on: March 03, 2016, 09:35:10 PM »
I don't want to even complain any more to the examples of ugly play that always seem to come from the same people, so I will open that thread to serve as a kind of "wall of shame", which would expose those who play ugly and provide example to all how to not behave. The other inputs are welcome.

So. character called
Ma Fara Sena ♂    known as "Whose Whispers Chain"is trying to get into battle my weaker char who evades. During battle preparation he is assigning some of his soldiers to my char, apparently in order to "confuse" or circumvent evasion mechanics. Assigning soldiers to the opponent on the other side of battlefield has no any in-game sense, the only sense is obviously to undermine game mechanics so I am posting it here as an example of ugly play.

Weaver

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
  • Karma: +53/-42
    • View Profile
Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2016, 10:42:17 PM »
The only thing that belongs on the "wall of shame" is this useless topic that undermines the entire community.

Whispers gave you 1 Heavy Infantry to "confuse" and "circumvent" your almost 100% evasion rate. She reports 7 evades in a row, and I call BS on that and say you are abusing double evade.

EDIT: Yes, I apologize if my initial approach was a bit aggressive, but it was provoked by the obvious twisting of facts and lies spoken to start another thread where the point is not to educate as stue put it, but to sling mud, slander and subvert. He claims this was done more than once, and he claims several soldiers were assigned. None of this is true.

As to the accusation that this makes no sense, mechanically it may make no difference, but from results, it actually may. So until Tom implements an 'auto-attack' function that deals with players like you, whose characters have no soldiers, stay around a town opposing take overs, and do absolutely nothing but be a pain in the rear, protected by the ever-loving holy grail of near certain 100% evade rates, I will use any method, and instruct everyone to use it, to deal with this stupidity, which as you put it 'makes no in-game sense, the only sense is obviously to undermine game mechanics so I am posting it here as an example of ugly play'.

Welcome to the Wall of Shame.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 01:11:02 AM by Weaver »

Andrew

  • Game Master / Lead Developer
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1797
  • Karma: +75/-7
  • Mildly Amused
    • View Profile
    • Lemuria Community Fan Site
Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2016, 11:40:54 PM »
I've allowed weaver's post as I think it will encourage discussion on the topics of evasion troop assignment mechanics but I'll say this once:

Be Civil.

Remain Civil.
Standing for the creation of interesting things since Year 1, Week 5, Day 4.
Favorite cold beverage: Strawberry Shake
My hobbies: Fixing computers, video games, anime, manga, some other stuff, sleep (in no particular order)

De-Legro

  • M&F Dev Team
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3107
  • Karma: +105/-54
    • View Profile
Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2016, 03:30:26 AM »
High evasion is annoying, players that use it to have almost untouchable scouts or TO harassment characters are likewise annoying. Most annoying are players that deliberately put such characters into harms way, and then complain when reasonably expect harm befalls them. However I don't agree with granting them troops to try and get around it. Such players/characters are at most a nuance.
He who was once known as Blackfyre

Constantine

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 256
  • Karma: +19/-10
    • View Profile
Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2016, 06:00:34 AM »
There needs at least to be a way to block enemies from granting you troops. I can't fathom how someone can justify this abuse, no matter how annoying the scouts may be.


Weaver

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
  • Karma: +53/-42
    • View Profile
Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2016, 09:55:09 AM »
I expect Tom to be around in short order to explain how giving 1 soldier to someone doesn't do basically anything for evasion rate calculations. Then I'll be absolved, but some of you still defended stue who has been using this tactic for /6 months/, and as De-Legro put it, whenever it eventually falls apart, he will be on the forum to complain how 'Oh he is so active, it is unfair' or whatever is course for par that day.

Nobody stops to ask how much this is forced by other people who abuse the evasion rates and how much time is spent on dealing with this. This kind of annoyance bordering on trolling could have it's own unit in the SI system.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 09:56:44 AM by Weaver »

Fulco

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
  • Karma: +5/-3
    • View Profile
Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2016, 01:15:57 PM »
The evasion rates are insane in this game, if you are active as some, then you will only fight the battles you want too. Its bloody pointless to try and fight a war while being slightly less active. I am close to just give up on the whole combat aspect.

Tom

  • Head Developer
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6325
  • Karma: +102/-15
    • View Profile
    • Might & Fealty
Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2016, 03:49:48 PM »
You should not be able to evade and do take control activities (including supporting/opposing them) at the same time. That is the real fix.

And yes, +/- 1 soldier makes so little difference to evasion rates, it probably disappears in some rounding anyway.

stueblahblah

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 294
  • Karma: +9/-35
    • View Profile
Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2016, 07:45:51 PM »
High evasion is annoying, players that use it to have almost untouchable scouts or TO harassment characters are likewise annoying. Most annoying are players that deliberately put such characters into harms way, and then complain when reasonably expect harm befalls them. However I don't agree with granting them troops to try and get around it. Such players/characters are at most a nuance.

...and it is even more annoying to send oblique accusations without knowing the details, seeming to advocate what i call ugly play.

"to harassment" is impossible to be performed, and putting characters deliberately in harms way, i don't know what it is at all.

in this specific case I put my character on takeover opposing, and traveling afterwards. as i logged on later, i saw that someone has nothing else to do in life but to reengage after each evade, which counted to 10-12 reengagements, and 2 battles, which oppose statements that evasion rates are too high. (they probable ARE too high for someone who stare at screen the whole day and reengage every 45 minutes, but not for anyone else).

It is not about how much change counter-IC soldier assignment will make within domain of mathematical probability but about ugly malpractice of playing against game mechanics and against any care for IC justifications.

I beleive such things should be pointed out as an example of how not to play if we want to create some friendly atmosphere on player level, and discourage toxic practice.

De-Legro

  • M&F Dev Team
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3107
  • Karma: +105/-54
    • View Profile
Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2016, 12:24:44 AM »
...and it is even more annoying to send oblique accusations without knowing the details, seeming to advocate what i call ugly play.

"to harassment" is impossible to be performed, and putting characters deliberately in harms way, i don't know what it is at all.

in this specific case I put my character on takeover opposing, and traveling afterwards. as i logged on later, i saw that someone has nothing else to do in life but to reengage after each evade, which counted to 10-12 reengagements, and 2 battles, which oppose statements that evasion rates are too high. (they probable ARE too high for someone who stare at screen the whole day and reengage every 45 minutes, but not for anyone else).

It is not about how much change counter-IC soldier assignment will make within domain of mathematical probability but about ugly malpractice of playing against game mechanics and against any care for IC justifications.

I beleive such things should be pointed out as an example of how not to play if we want to create some friendly atmosphere on player level, and discourage toxic practice.

How did you oppose as well as set auto evade. That should not be possible.

My issue with this thread is there is no need consultation, no input from the community before someone is stuffed into a thread whoms topic has already declared them as guilty.

Your initial post is a complaint about something occuring to you, it belongs in the rage zone. If the community at large then decide that someone needs "shaming" or that a particular behaviour needs to be listed as unacceptable, all well and good.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 12:34:06 AM by De-Legro »
He who was once known as Blackfyre

stueblahblah

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 294
  • Karma: +9/-35
    • View Profile
Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2016, 01:48:25 AM »
If there is minimum of democracy and free thought to be maintained on the forum, which should likely be main purpose of forum, than I as an ordinary player should have right to announce what I deem bad play.

You can agree or disagree and post your arguments, that is why forum it is. I truly despise personal attacks, especially insults, and if you read my posts you will notice that I criticize behavior not people as persons.

And if many players agree on some common principles, that can make some influence and relax need for "police".

And I am actually curious to learn how many people will agree that obsessive desire to win all the time, always, by all means, while disregarding any self-imposed obligation to make some in-game justification for the actions - truly ruins the atmosphere?


De-Legro

  • M&F Dev Team
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3107
  • Karma: +105/-54
    • View Profile
Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2016, 02:07:08 AM »
If there is minimum of democracy and free thought to be maintained on the forum, which should likely be main purpose of forum, than I as an ordinary player should have right to announce what I deem bad play.

You can agree or disagree and post your arguments, that is why forum it is. I truly despise personal attacks, especially insults, and if you read my posts you will notice that I criticize behavior not people as persons.

And if many players agree on some common principles, that can make some influence and relax need for "police".

And I am actually curious to learn how many people will agree that obsessive desire to win all the time, always, by all means, while disregarding any self-imposed obligation to make some in-game justification for the actions - truly ruins the atmosphere?

Of course you are free to post such. That is partly why the rage zone exists. My complaint is not about posting, but that by doing so in the calm down under the topic you have chosen, it brings with it an implication that this is not a.discussion, that it is not merely an opinion, but that the validity of the action has already been ruled to be lacking.

As I posted before, it is not an action I would use, nor would I be pleased to have it used against me. But then the opportunity to use it against me would be rather limited. I don't undertake takeover actions without troops.
He who was once known as Blackfyre

Weaver

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 248
  • Karma: +53/-42
    • View Profile
Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2016, 08:10:34 AM »
which would expose those who play ugly and provide example to all how to not behave.

Quote
i saw that someone has nothing else to do in life but to reengage after each evade, which counted to 10-12 reengagements, and 2 battles, which oppose statements that evasion rates are too high. (they probable ARE too high for someone who stare at screen the whole day and reengage every 45 minutes, but not for anyone else).

Quote
I truly despise personal attacks, especially insults, and if you read my posts you will notice that I criticize behavior not people as persons.

I dunno, mate, but it looks to me like you are attacking me and the player of Whose Whispers Chain, not their behavior. Fact is, you have been in Besai for 6 months and more, and no one can root you out, because YOU abuse the high evasion rates. You have no reason to be there. ICly, the only thing there is the death of all your characters, which cannot be realized because you keep evading and opposing TOs.

There were 8 engagements, not 12, and there were 2 battles, ironically, two in a row after I said 'double evades'. Furthermore, never did you apologize for lying to the entire forum about how many soldiers you were assigned, and how many times this happened. You did nothing but accuse and accuse and accuse. This is a forum. Not a court. You want to practice Democracy? When you come here with this baggage you turn the forum into a flame-fest- the first few replies are indicative of such. So no. You are not doing anyone a favor or criticizing behavior. You are starting a witch hunt.

Foxglove

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 549
  • Karma: +72/-10
    • View Profile
Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2016, 12:54:06 PM »
Just a reminder to all to keep things civil. Keep discussing things, by all means, and calmly vent frustrations. But keep the interpersonal tension levels down. This is the calm zone.
Standing for the responsible use of power since Year 1, Week 1, Day 1.
Fun fact: I wrote some of the text for the M&F crowdfunding campaign.
Favourite warm beverage: hot chocolate.

Constantine

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 256
  • Karma: +19/-10
    • View Profile
Re: Examples of ugly play
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2016, 07:22:49 PM »
I think we can all agree on mechanics being abused here without making it a personal feud.
Double evades - bad. Assigning soldiers to an enemy character - bad. Let's not do that.
All the ensuing banter I'll be happy to ignore.