Author Topic: players / realms abusing exploits....  (Read 4047 times)

Ratharing

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Re: players / realms abusing exploits....
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2016, 09:17:21 PM »
Insanegame27, that kind of attitude serves us nothing and detracts a lot from the atmosphere. Be more polite.

From what I have gathered there were two bugs involved.

Bug 1: Jon Markson set to Block Area and intercepted Kort Vaeringjar, starting two battles at once with him.

Bug 2: People nearby set Military Aid to their respective allies and joining both battles at once.

Right now the military module is a Swiss cheese, so we are discussing what we can agree upon and try to maintain this as a friendly game.

Stonedman

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Re: players / realms abusing exploits....
« Reply #31 on: February 29, 2016, 02:48:32 PM »
indeed, it seems as though a couple of factors combined to create this bug....


1) 2 independant characters were "blocking" the same area, so started 1 battle each against the same enemy noble.
2) both battles were then started within close vicinity of eachother.
3) Military aid set to the 1 enemy noble, means that first ones will join "all" battles they are in the vicinity of


This in itself is a bug in Military aid, and on this occasion couldn't be helped. But it does mean that people need to be aware that enemies will auto join "all" battles that individual noble is involved in, so we cannot going forwards send eg half our troops to join each battle against that noble, like we might have done in the past.


When this happens, people need to be aware to put all of their forces (apart from those that initiated the "block" action, to support a single noble in their battle.
This does mean you will sacrifice one of the nobles who started a fight, but it means that you will not have to fight the same enemies twice within minutes of each battle.


The potential exploit within Military aid, is when you set it up to support two characters to join them in battle.


So basically if you set to support 1 character who is involved in multiple battles, the system will dump you into them all, not a player "choice", a bug not an exploit, it cant be avoided.


But if you set your Military aid to support multiple nobles who have started multiple battles against the same enemy character, to "make" it put you into multiple battles, then that is an exploit, as you are intentionally working around the game design and "using" the bug to your advantage.








De-Legro

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Re: players / realms abusing exploits....
« Reply #32 on: February 29, 2016, 10:17:50 PM »
My character was a part of this battle and I intentionally used the Military Aid for I knew it was the only way to participate in two battles. If it is an exploit, I really did not know, but it would seem really weird that if my archers wanted to shoot the enemy incoming from the south that I stop them and tell them "Hey" Don't shoot those. That is another battle and we're already invovled in this one!" Point is, if there are nobles close enough to interact then these battles should be able to merge into people supporting each other if they wanted to. Don't know if this is so, but it is a bad game design if it isn't.


You can't rock up near two battle and use JOIN BATTLE to join both can you? I will accept that you have not read the various threads that complain about the fact that you can be engaged in multiple battles but can not join them, it is a topic that has been covered more then enough and Tom has made his opinion known several times. Yes you can start multiple battles against the same noble by using multiple characters to start the battles. No you are NOT meant to be able to join those battles, otherwise you know what, Attackers could just do the same and some poor sap would have 4 simultaneous battles of 2k troops attacking their lonely self. Does that sound like good design?


Insanegame27, that kind of attitude serves us nothing and detracts a lot from the atmosphere. Be more polite.

From what I have gathered there were two bugs involved.

Bug 1: Jon Markson set to Block Area and intercepted Kort Vaeringjar, starting two battles at once with him.

Bug 2: People nearby set Military Aid to their respective allies and joining both battles at once.

Right now the military module is a Swiss cheese, so we are discussing what we can agree upon and try to maintain this as a friendly game.


No, bug 1 is a myth. Two separate characters near each other had block area set, thus when Kort came near, both triggered. That is not a bug, that is 100% correct behavior.


Bug 2 is a bug in so far that if you had set Kort as whom you wished to aid military, you would join both. If you set two separate aid instructions on different characters, well that is just an attempt to circumvent the "can only join a single battle" logic that the game has had since its inception. I would say that is also a bug, the game should only trigger on the first valid Military Aid action, but where as the first bug is somewhat unavoidable and incidental, the second can be avoided, and can be deliberately abused.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 10:22:00 PM by De-Legro »
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Ratharing

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Re: players / realms abusing exploits....
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2016, 02:05:38 AM »
No, bug 1 is a myth. Two separate characters near each other had block area set, thus when Kort came near, both triggered. That is not a bug, that is 100% correct behavior.

Jon Markson participated of both simultaneous battles and was reported as the one who started both. If that is not what happened, then he was the first one to make use of the Military Aid bug instead.

Bug 2 is a bug in so far that if you had set Kort as whom you wished to aid military, you would join both. If you set two separate aid instructions on different characters, well that is just an attempt to circumvent the "can only join a single battle" logic that the game has had since its inception. I would say that is also a bug, the game should only trigger on the first valid Military Aid action, but where as the first bug is somewhat unavoidable and incidental, the second can be avoided, and can be deliberately abused.

People reportedly set only one military aid directed at Kort and that made them join both.

De-Legro

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Re: players / realms abusing exploits....
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2016, 09:26:50 AM »
Jon Markson participated of both simultaneous battles and was reported as the one who started both. If that is not what happened, then he was the first one to make use of the Military Aid bug instead.

People reportedly set only one military aid directed at Kort and that made them join both.

Impossible, if you look at the logs provided the two battles had different initial durations. If the same character started them, then the duration would be identical. Calarg of Vaiwelion started the second. Stoned has all already admitted to testing military aid bug after he noticed the first few Low Land nobles joining the battle.

As to the 2nd point, yes as I have pointed out from the start, most Low Land nobles, and I had believed all, had set to support Kort and thus joined. Dorian posted that he purposely used military aid to join both, but does not state the exact method of his deliberate action. Ascalon would have needed to set 2 orders to iniatally set up the battles with a single character in both.
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Tom

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Re: players / realms abusing exploits....
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2016, 09:15:42 AM »
It is not an abuse.

Military Aid will allow you to join multiple battles if and only if the same target of your aid is involved in all of them. In fact, you don't have a choice, you will join all of them.

This is contrary to "join battle" where you can choose.

Why? Because otherwise there would be another exploit possible. Dodge military aid by engaging your target in multiple battles, knowing that any aid he might receive will only join one of them.

De-Legro

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Re: players / realms abusing exploits....
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2016, 10:58:08 AM »
It is not an abuse.

Military Aid will allow you to join multiple battles if and only if the same target of your aid is involved in all of them. In fact, you don't have a choice, you will join all of them.

This is contrary to "join battle" where you can choose.

Why? Because otherwise there would be another exploit possible. Dodge military aid by engaging your target in multiple battles, knowing that any aid he might receive will only join one of them.


What of the case of setting multiple aid targets.
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