Author Topic: Yay bandits  (Read 3222 times)

willy

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Re: Yay bandits
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2017, 07:45:29 AM »
I guess I've had a different experience with the bandits I created. I got two killed within a week of raiding. One spawned and immediately went for a undefended village. Somehow ended up meeting someone passing through and got wasted. Dont even remember the report, I was new so I might have missed 100 man host sitting in a 500 pop town. The next one attacked a tiny palisade town with no noble (40 militia). Had 30 cavalry archers and 10 broadsword/scale. Infantry got shredded in ranged phase and the extended ranged fight went equally bad. Suppose those longbow cavalry could have done better in an open field.


I recall seeing it, but I'd like bandits to build off gold/food raiding. They scavenge for food to feed the men they hire with gold raided. If they could hire mercenaries anywhere, you could build a proper bandit king with time and luck. If that is too much power for a exploitable bandit then just extend the time it takes build gold per recruit. Loot a small town for 50 gold, that'll get 1 greedy bastard abandoning his home and Firstonelord, can you still pay the rest who did the same? Just something to give a bandit a solo-goal. The carrot doesn't have to be real close, just as long as it's somewhere in front of the horse.


For now it just seems like bandits are scout/harrass-mules; trying to keep from starving. I appreciate the goal "keep from starving" and dont get caught, but nobody appreciates the stick.

Demivar

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Re: Yay bandits
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2017, 03:11:45 PM »
I guess I've had a different experience with the bandits I created. I got two killed within a week of raiding. One spawned and immediately went for a undefended village. Somehow ended up meeting someone passing through and got wasted. Dont even remember the report, I was new so I might have missed 100 man host sitting in a 500 pop town. The next one attacked a tiny palisade town with no noble (40 militia). Had 30 cavalry archers and 10 broadsword/scale. Infantry got shredded in ranged phase and the extended ranged fight went equally bad. Suppose those longbow cavalry could have done better in an open field.


I recall seeing it, but I'd like bandits to build off gold/food raiding. They scavenge for food to feed the men they hire with gold raided. If they could hire mercenaries anywhere, you could build a proper bandit king with time and luck. If that is too much power for a exploitable bandit then just extend the time it takes build gold per recruit. Loot a small town for 50 gold, that'll get 1 greedy bastard abandoning his home and Firstonelord, can you still pay the rest who did the same? Just something to give a bandit a solo-goal. The carrot doesn't have to be real close, just as long as it's somewhere in front of the horse.


For now it just seems like bandits are scout/harrass-mules; trying to keep from starving. I appreciate the goal "keep from starving" and dont get caught, but nobody appreciates the stick.
The purpose of bandits is to create a bit of tension. In most places around the world, having a bandit present is something irritating that'd be beneficial to kill. It's great fodder for new players, and can at least get quiet realms talking for a short while.


As a bandit, you're playing for everyone else's benefit, really. I like that they can't evade because it means that players don't have to play cat & mouse forever with an untraceable character.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 03:19:10 PM by Demivar »
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McTang

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Re: Yay bandits
« Reply #47 on: April 30, 2017, 09:01:34 AM »
So I'm a new player (came over from battlemaster to give things a shot), and one of the first things I did was try out a bandit. I didn't want to just ride and attack senselessly, and met with a noble so that I could start sending threatening messages.


There were plenty of ideas that occurred to me for fun RP, but I have to say the current system makes them all nigh on impossible. There's no way for a First One to accede to any demand since they can't transfer gold, give settlement access, or interact with a bandit in any way other than fighting. The one idea I hit on was to insist that the First One ban thralls in their region, but beyond that the current system makes bandits little more than distractions.


If the point of the game is to create a world where player interaction makes the fun, shouldn't the bandit system add to that fun by allowing proper RP? IF not, what's the point?

willy

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Re: Yay bandits
« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2017, 09:53:56 AM »
If the point of the game is to create a world where player interaction makes the fun, shouldn't the bandit system add to that fun by allowing proper RP? IF not, what's the point?


I've had some luck with a bandit who I use as a forward-scout and insurgent for a noble; the two other bandits I got to try didn't last past the first "hi, my name is Mud" when going to interact with a nobles or other bandits. There isn't much to do with them, which I guess is the point, but I'm sure eventually some goodies will come out. Give a solo bandit more to do than waylay under-protected knights and towns.


I do like that a bandit's leverage is "I can stomp things" whereas a nobles leverage is "I can build things". Bandits are only good for one or two good battles, a disposable suicide fighter, but that seems reasonable for (essentially) a terrorist. Maybe try using your bandit as a tool for others rather than a force of his own. You can always try to stab them in the back (at the worst possible time) if you wanna be a baddie.


Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Yay bandits
« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2017, 09:58:11 AM »

I've had some luck with a bandit who I use as a forward-scout and insurgent for a noble; the two other bandits I got to try didn't last past the first "hi, my name is Mud" when going to interact with a nobles or other bandits. There isn't much to do with them, which I guess is the point, but I'm sure eventually some goodies will come out. Give a solo bandit more to do than waylay under-protected knights and towns.


I do like that a bandit's leverage is "I can stomp things" whereas a nobles leverage is "I can build things". Bandits are only good for one or two good battles, a disposable suicide fighter, but that seems reasonable for (essentially) a terrorist. Maybe try using your bandit as a tool for others rather than a force of his own. You can always try to stab them in the back (at the worst possible time) if you wanna be a baddie.

Actually that was the entire issue with Bandits, realms would organize them to be used in conjunction with their own armies to overpower other realms who they otherwise would be on even terms with. And it is completely random who gets them. So imagine by sheer luck, a realm getting 4-5 bandits with plate armor troops.

willy

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Re: Yay bandits
« Reply #50 on: April 30, 2017, 10:50:06 AM »

There seems to be some limitations on when you can create a bandit, so that helps keep game changing shenanigans down. I'm not sure how much work it would take to pull that off...with the random spawns as well. I just got lucky when one spawned in just the right place.


500 gold could probably get you the same mercenaries for 1 pitched battle (as 3 or 4 brigands would add), so I count 'using' brigands as pretty well balanced. I wouldn't mind there being more luck/diceroll involved with bandits, though. I like wildcards.

Andre

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Re: Yay bandits
« Reply #51 on: April 30, 2017, 11:03:15 AM »
Brigands add an extra First One to the mix aswell, which mercenaries dont. And it allows for completly anonymous attacks. 


But yes, brigands are basically useless to the game, and I would rather that people set up their own First One brigands, would mean they can still have all the features. And player mercenaries would be better as anonymous attackers and extra troops.

willy

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Re: Yay bandits
« Reply #52 on: April 30, 2017, 12:14:32 PM »
I would rather that people set up their own First One brigands, would mean they can still have all the features. And player mercenaries would be better as anonymous attackers and extra troops.

I kind of like that. Maybe not unlock all the options, though. I'd rather see different tools for certain things. Like, a brigand can take the town for himself (or enter it with permission) and can even buy entourage and force a tradepact...but you can't train/mobilize honorable troops. You have to buy mercenaries for more troops (or have troops assigned by a noble even). Brigands can still do their thing, but now they can also be hired guns that drain gold. Since getting entourage would keep a bandit from starving, maybe even make their lives gold-dependent? "Pay 10 gold a week or your men kill you" kind of thing. I'd like bandits to be a 'fight or die' struggle, or at least a respectable drain on resources if a noble is using them as a mule.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 12:18:38 PM by willy »

Andre

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Re: Yay bandits
« Reply #53 on: April 30, 2017, 12:19:43 PM »
I was more talking about if you want to play a brigand then creating a First One for that purpose would be a better choice type of deal, sure you dont start with troops but you can actually play the game. And honestly, getting troops isn't that difficult. There are so many independent, slumbering and lordless towns around that you can take over and train troops in. Hell in lordless ones you dont even have to take it over, just mobilize the troops or train some, you can even use it as your base.

De-Legro

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Re: Yay bandits
« Reply #54 on: May 01, 2017, 01:52:17 AM »
So I'm a new player (came over from battlemaster to give things a shot), and one of the first things I did was try out a bandit. I didn't want to just ride and attack senselessly, and met with a noble so that I could start sending threatening messages.


There were plenty of ideas that occurred to me for fun RP, but I have to say the current system makes them all nigh on impossible. There's no way for a First One to accede to any demand since they can't transfer gold, give settlement access, or interact with a bandit in any way other than fighting. The one idea I hit on was to insist that the First One ban thralls in their region, but beyond that the current system makes bandits little more than distractions.


If the point of the game is to create a world where player interaction makes the fun, shouldn't the bandit system add to that fun by allowing proper RP? IF not, what's the point?


As has been said, when we first had bandits you could pay them, give them troops pretty much anything you could do for any other character. They also had no restriction on where they could travel unlike the current code that has their troops desert if they move too far. The issue wasn't so much that people used them in their armies. It was they would organise a large band of them, give them good troops and then wage a war that was largely untraceable back to them, until they would march in later against a weakened foe.


As they are they are a pain. Either they spawn somewhere that is new or has "bad" territories and they are overpowered, or they spawn somewhere they are completely useless. I argued when Tom was placing the new restrictions that we should just do away with them, but as is normal Tom believed in leaving them in until he had time to further revise them. Personally I am a much bigger fan of cutting out things that don't currently work as with a project like this, you simply cannot know how long it will take until they give the attention to make them "valuable"



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McTang

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Re: Yay bandits
« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2017, 03:00:04 AM »
Personally I am a much bigger fan of cutting out things that don't currently work as with a project like this, you simply cannot know how long it will take until they give the attention to make them "valuable"


I like that argument a lot. At the moment, they don't seem to be adding to the stated purpose of creating good player interactions and roleplay.