Author Topic: Thralls and resource production  (Read 2644 times)

Constantine

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Thralls and resource production
« on: January 18, 2016, 12:08:03 PM »
So as far as I understand thralls do not build or work in buildings and are only supposed to participate in resource production.
I tried to test how they work and something does not add up.


I've got a settlement (s:2414) with 4k civilians and a bit less than 300 militia.
With 350 thralls food production balance was at around 0. With 550 thralls it was around -100. With 750 thralls it dropped to -200.
Economic security did not change (excellent)


So what gives? Adding thralls just linearly decreases food production with no significant change in other resources values. Am I using thralls wrong or are they broken?

Arx

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Re: Thralls and resource production
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2016, 12:48:18 PM »
There's a certain element of diminishing returns to the local economy that might account for part of that. The other part is that economic security is a more finely graded scale than just what's displayed, if I remember correctly. Adding two hundred thralls might well decrease economic security from somewhere in the region of, say, 'freaking amazing' to 'really good', which wouldn't be displayed but would still have an effect.

Might also be a bug there, but those are the two things off the top of my head that would probably cause it.

Tom

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Re: Thralls and resource production
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2016, 05:35:52 PM »
With 4k, you are almost certainly beyond the sustainable level of agriculture for that region. Basically, if you take the same amount of land, say 1 hectare, and you put 10 people to farm it, they will harvest 10 potatoes. When you put 20 people to farm it, maybe they will harvest 20. But when you put 100 people on it, they won't harvest 100. Land is limited and they begin to step on each others feet. And when you put 1000 people on it, the difference to 100 will be negliegable. Somewhere in there, an additional man is producing less than he eats.

This is what you see. You already have 1000 people working that field, probably relying on imported food already, and now you add 100 more. They will harvest maybe one additional potato, but eat 100.

Constantine

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Re: Thralls and resource production
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2016, 06:37:35 PM »
So thralls are only useful in small settlements and in big cities they actually hurt the economy. Good to know.
How do you get rid of thralls then? Can you somehow transfer or disband them?

Stonedman

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Re: Thralls and resource production
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2016, 06:59:05 PM »
interesting detail on thralls there...


Send them to your "farms" not your cities :)

Ratharing

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Re: Thralls and resource production
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2016, 07:47:23 PM »
Thralls are good in cities that have enough civilians to make your buildings productive as well as in farms.


They are the first ones to starve, so if you want to kill them just make the food go on negative. Make a controlled population diminution.

Dorian

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Re: Thralls and resource production
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2016, 08:11:16 PM »
You sure about that? Tried to kill them off with starvation but both peasants and thralls died equally. I have 400 thralls and wanna get rid of them. Does that mean I need to kill peasants too, since they appear to be dying at the same rate?

De-Legro

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Re: Thralls and resource production
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2016, 10:17:27 PM »
You sure about that? Tried to kill them off with starvation but both peasants and thralls died equally. I have 400 thralls and wanna get rid of them. Does that mean I need to kill peasants too, since they appear to be dying at the same rate?

Even of you crash the estate, some can survive and then breed.
He who was once known as Blackfyre

Ratharing

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Re: Thralls and resource production
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2016, 12:13:54 AM »
Suggestion: Make it so that if the settlement forbids slavery, then all new thralls are born free (whenever the amount of thralls increases, that increase is converted into peasants, for simplicity). That would help a lot with the issue.


Edit: And also make it so that a small amount (between 1 and 5%) of the thralls become peasants each certain amount of time, when slavery is forbidden, representing slaves that bought their own freedom, and the old ones dying and new free ones being born.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 12:16:56 AM by Ratharing »

Tom

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Re: Thralls and resource production
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2016, 07:33:32 AM »
That suggestion is great and simple, I will include it in the next update.

Dorian

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Re: Thralls and resource production
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2016, 06:02:18 PM »
I've done some thinking on the matter of thralls and I have concluded that they are only good in purely resource producing regions, forests and especially mines. They will never increase food production so it is pointless to have them in the 'farming' region, provided you consider these farming regions as those that send food the main settlements. If you food balance in a settlement is 0 adding 30 thralls will result in -15 net food, which means that any amount of thralls you imprison and ship to your settlement will be halved once the deficit kills 15 the other half. You get 15 new peasants that don't increase the food production, nor working in buildings nor working in constructions. They only increase the production of wood and metal. Thus, I find that the slaves are really working best in the mines, or forests.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 06:04:01 PM by Dorian »

Weaver

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Re: Thralls and resource production
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2016, 06:07:41 PM »
Thralls are actually pretty good for feeder settlements.

Dorian

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Re: Thralls and resource production
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2016, 06:26:43 PM »
I am missing something then. Care to explain how?

Weaver

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Re: Thralls and resource production
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2016, 08:58:02 PM »
Tom already explained it a few posts back.

I gotta go sleep, but if it's still unclear let me know and I'll give you the full rundown.

Dorian

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Re: Thralls and resource production
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2016, 09:22:20 PM »
I understood Tom's post. However, I am getting negative food values for small regions, like 400 people. I just now tested it again on a grassland settlement of some 800 souls; hardly an exploited piece of land. So I randomly looted 1 thrall somewhere and brought him to my settlement. My production of food in that settlement dropped 7 points and consumption went up for 1. There were no changes in production of other resources. How can one slave eat so much food? Doesn't make sense.