Author Topic: Battle spam lock  (Read 3643 times)

Tom

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Re: Battle spam lock
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2016, 03:58:30 PM »
Thing is, we are not running a simulation. It doesn't have to be perfectly realistic, just plausible.

De-Legro

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Re: Battle spam lock
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2016, 09:44:57 PM »
Depending on the period and locality, he's entirely correct. IIRC, late middle-ages Italian armies would often fight battles with a single-figure casualty count because they would spend hours or days maneuvering and making feints before one side decided they couldn't get a real advantage and conceded the victory to the other.

Admittedly, it got them slaughtered when other people attacked, but hey. It happened.

Or look at the battle of Azincourt, if you like. The English army had time to deploy sharpened stakes and form up their army before battle was joined, by all accounts. Maybe not that long, but a while.

In the battle of Tours, the armies stared eachother down for about a week before the battle actually joined.

And of course, M&F has battles end instantly when battles could run on for eight hours or more.

There are a handful of other examples. Maybe the actual forming up didn't take that long, but the peripherals - trying to wait out your opponent, inching your shieldwall forward, waiting for last-minute reinforcements, and so on - could certainly run on that long.


That's not quite correct. They were mercenary armies largely, and thus it was in their own best interest to actually avoid protracted engagements.
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Arx

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Re: Battle spam lock
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2016, 09:59:50 PM »
True enough. Nonetheless, it happened, and the other points stand.

And of course, this is a game where a lone rider moves at two kilometers per hour. Details can be handwaved.

Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Battle spam lock
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2016, 10:48:11 PM »
Depending on the period and locality, he's entirely correct. IIRC, late middle-ages Italian armies would often fight battles with a single-figure casualty count because they would spend hours or days maneuvering and making feints before one side decided they couldn't get a real advantage and conceded the victory to the other.

Admittedly, it got them slaughtered when other people attacked, but hey. It happened.

Or look at the battle of Azincourt, if you like. The English army had time to deploy sharpened stakes and form up their army before battle was joined, by all accounts. Maybe not that long, but a while.

In the battle of Tours, the armies stared eachother down for about a week before the battle actually joined.

And of course, M&F has battles end instantly when battles could run on for eight hours or more.

There are a handful of other examples. Maybe the actual forming up didn't take that long, but the peripherals - trying to wait out your opponent, inching your shieldwall forward, waiting for last-minute reinforcements, and so on - could certainly run on that long.

What you're talking about is tactics and strategy, not the ritualized combat that Tom imagines.

By the way, stakes don't take very long to deploy. You literally carry them with you, move into position, then hammer them into the ground. Takes like 10-30 minutes, not a day. The battle took so long to occur because the French were waiting for reinforcements, not because of some "ritual" they had to go through.

Velrun

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Re: Battle spam lock
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2016, 03:06:46 AM »
It shouldn't be. Battles under 7-8 hours of preparation time should only be possible if the defending force is much superior to the attacking force. Are you certain about this?



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Tom

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Re: Battle spam lock
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2016, 03:27:38 PM »
Very strange. Is she slumbering or anything?

De-Legro

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Re: Battle spam lock
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2016, 03:43:50 PM »
Very strange. Is she slumbering or anything?

No Tom, this is occurring  constantly.
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Tom

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Re: Battle spam lock
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2016, 10:18:08 AM »
I'm looking at the code, looking and looking, and I don't see what the problem is. :-(

stueblahblah

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Re: Battle spam lock
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2016, 01:01:06 PM »
..and this is just that abuse found by players who do nothing by seeking how to explore faulty mechanics:

due to ability to attack already attacked noble unlimited number of times, some guys just attack my one of my character endlessly, disallowing him to move or do anything, though he has much larger army.

again, i strongly feel this is  fault of game mechanics which practically appeals to guys who hang around online all the time, to exploit everything related to clock.

tom, i appreciate you as an ingenious designer who created battlemaster and created some hope that this will be great game as well, but i have to ask plainly - is it really intentional that so many aspects of the game so heavily depend on constant observing of events and jumping leaving everything in real world just to react on every event in matter of minutes? 

I already have more than one character which I actually cannot play as whenever I log in, I can just note row of events that i cannot affect in any way. and when I do have time to play, there is nothing to do as everything need waiting up to the exact moment of time. there is very, very large discrepancy between very slow events processing and ultimate need to react on them when finished in minutes.

De-Legro

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Re: Battle spam lock
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2016, 01:56:24 PM »
..and this is just that abuse found by players who do nothing by seeking how to explore faulty mechanics:

due to ability to attack already attacked noble unlimited number of times, some guys just attack my one of my character endlessly, disallowing him to move or do anything, though he has much larger army.

again, i strongly feel this is  fault of game mechanics which practically appeals to guys who hang around online all the time, to exploit everything related to clock.

tom, i appreciate you as an ingenious designer who created battlemaster and created some hope that this will be great game as well, but i have to ask plainly - is it really intentional that so many aspects of the game so heavily depend on constant observing of events and jumping leaving everything in real world just to react on every event in matter of minutes? 

I already have more than one character which I actually cannot play as whenever I log in, I can just note row of events that i cannot affect in any way. and when I do have time to play, there is nothing to do as everything need waiting up to the exact moment of time. there is very, very large discrepancy between very slow events processing and ultimate need to react on them when finished in minutes.

Or here is a thought, apologise to those that hunt you and seek terms. Elysium for example left you alone for RL days, then you decide to return to our territory. It is not like the response you will get there should be a surprise.

Plainly evade needs to be linked to movement ticks, such that evade occurs.and then.you move. Having it occur separately and without a regroup timer on the attackers means against active players you must time things to perfection, and if you are relying.on evade all you are out of luck.
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stueblahblah

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Re: Battle spam lock
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2016, 02:27:26 PM »
Or here is a thought, apologise to those that hunt you and seek terms. Elysium for example left you alone for RL days, then you decide to return to our territory. It is not like the response you will get there should be a surprise.

Plainly evade needs to be linked to movement ticks, such that evade occurs.and then.you move. Having it occur separately and without a regroup timer on the attackers means against active players you must time things to perfection, and if you are relying.on evade all you are out of luck.

you seemingly did not read my post  with any attention, otherwise you would realize that it's not related to your subject, which is likely your own fixation.

the groteaque you are making with time is another story, but it's not story i am writing about here. please read and find that I am talking about my stronger character who is permanently attacked by several weaker ones and prevented from any moving or doing.

this goes so absurd that in the queue there is regroup time for previous battle while new battle is already in process.

as i can log in sometimes, just to find out that i am locked until next time when i'm locked again, what i am trying is to send the message to tom that this is called "design to failure": works as intended to get rid of players. :(

De-Legro

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Re: Battle spam lock
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2016, 03:05:43 PM »
you seemingly did not read my post  with any attention, otherwise you would realize that it's not related to your subject, which is likely your own fixation.

the groteaque you are making with time is another story, but it's not story i am writing about here. please read and find that I am talking about my stronger character who is permanently attacked by several weaker ones and prevented from any moving or doing.

this goes so absurd that in the queue there is regroup time for previous battle while new battle is already in process.

as i can log in sometimes, just to find out that i am locked until next time when i'm locked again, what i am trying is to send the message to tom that this is called "design to failure": works as intended to get rid of players. :(


Yes, Tom already added new feature against this. If they are much weaker the battles are faster. If you had decent support they would rally to your aid. Decent troop composition and you would be capturing them most battles. If that is not happening guess what, you equated more troops to stronger, that is not always the case.
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Tom

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Re: Battle spam lock
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2016, 03:20:13 PM »
due to ability to attack already attacked noble unlimited number of times, some guys just attack my one of my character endlessly, disallowing him to move or do anything, though he has much larger army.

This is unintentional and ideally it would resolve itself with you getting a long list of events basically saying "these twenty people tried to stop our march, but they were with just a handful of soldiers, so we slaughtered them all and proceeded" on login.

Can you give me details of these encounters, please? How many men are engaging how many of you, how long is the battle preparation time, do they overlap and so on? I'd like to reconstruct this as complete as possible.

Note that you will still move. After every battle or every evasion, you will move a little bit, even if you are engaged in other battles.

Tom

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Re: Battle spam lock
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2016, 03:22:24 PM »
Or here is a thought, apologise to those that hunt you and seek terms. Elysium for example left you alone for RL days, then you decide to return to our territory. It is not like the response you will get there should be a surprise.

This has nothing to do with the topic. Doesn't matter how good IC reasons there are, the game mechanics should not be abusable to lock down a large army without some considerable investment of troops.


Quote
Plainly evade needs to be linked to movement ticks, such that evade occurs.and then.you move. Having it occur separately and without a regroup timer on the attackers means against active players you must time things to perfection, and if you are relying.on evade all you are out of luck.

Not true. Immediately after the evade, even outside movement ticks, you will move a little bit. No matter what else is going on, even if travel is locked for other reasons. This was specifically added to prevent overlapping engages stopping evasive movement.

De-Legro

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Re: Battle spam lock
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2016, 03:33:25 PM »
This has nothing to do with the topic. Doesn't matter how good IC reasons there are, the game mechanics should not be abusable to lock down a large army without some considerable investment of troops.


Not true. Immediately after the evade, even outside movement ticks, you will move a little bit. No matter what else is going on, even if travel is locked for other reasons. This was specifically added to prevent overlapping engages stopping evasive movement.


And it has NEVER worked as has been stated time and time and time again. Perma lock on evade is a thing Tom, it has been for months. With timers as low as 15 minutes I have watched battle after battle be restarted in a 8 hour block and never did they move far enough to evade the single opponent engaging them. If that is your solution, then it needs tweaking to actually be of some use.
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