Author Topic: Feature Request: War Report  (Read 4887 times)

Ehndras

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
  • Karma: +9/-8
  • Urist Tarzath, Emperor of the Children of Armok
    • View Profile
Re: Feature Request: War Report
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2015, 03:50:28 PM »
Thank you!
Mors Principium Est - Death is only the beginning

Tom

  • Head Developer
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6320
  • Karma: +102/-15
    • View Profile
    • Might & Fealty
Re: Feature Request: War Report
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2015, 05:48:50 PM »
So, back to the topic, here are my thoughts so far that could begin to appear soon:

Rulers of a realm can declare a war, naming a list of settlements as targets as well as writing a text about the why.
The realms of those settlements then receive the declaration of war, and a "war details" page available from both the settlement and the realms pages shows what the status of each settlement is (e.g. who controls it, if it was taken by the attacker or not, etc.) All of this is already public information, it is just nicely aggregated in one place.

There should probably be a map as well.

There are two more things. There is a (hidden, I think) timer on this war. The more settlements you target the longer, but in a non-linear way so that you don't want to name too many targets (incentive to limit wars). Depending on where the timer stands and how the settlements are doing, the war is scored. Essentially, the war details page will tell you if the attacking realm is doing well or not so well in its efforts.

And for the moment, that is all. If this works good and people use it (unlike the current diplomacy system, which I think is rarely used), I can easily expand this system, for example to allow characters as targets as well, or the submission of entire realms.


Thoughts?

stueblahblah

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 294
  • Karma: +9/-35
    • View Profile
Re: Feature Request: War Report
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2015, 08:44:34 PM »
I am wandering whether it will have medieval flavor, I mean clock is ticking, people are logging, rushing...

It can be imagined at a glance that aggressor realm is gathering troops on the border for ages, starving defending realm, than declaring war when preparations are finished, than jumping in with the highest speed...

Aggressor could also target region by region, with no limits.

May I say - could not that all be achieved with soldier's starvation, having almost the same effect as timer? If ruler could get one single report per day on condition of field troops, something like "readiness" in BM, that could be very similar to such war report as you mentioned, but much more flavored and "realistic"? The more regions targeted, the more demand for care for such "readiness".

I always believed that diplomacy could be strengthened with one single change - to apply that noone can loot anyone while in peace, cannot attack anyone before going to war. Right now, people simply don't bother. Talking from position of guy who was dragging the sleeve of other guy many times to write diplomatic stance when I wrote it already...
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 08:46:19 PM by stueblahblah »

Tom

  • Head Developer
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6320
  • Karma: +102/-15
    • View Profile
    • Might & Fealty
Re: Feature Request: War Report
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2015, 07:52:12 AM »
I always believed that diplomacy could be strengthened with one single change - to apply that noone can loot anyone while in peace, cannot attack anyone before going to war.

That I will never add. That's an artificial restriction.



Quote
It can be imagined at a glance that aggressor realm is gathering troops on the border for ages, starving defending realm, than declaring war when preparations are finished, than jumping in with the highest speed...

Possible. But that already happens anyway.

What I get from your comment is that you see the timer as the main issue. I don't. It won't even be prominent. Its main purpose is to make sure that wars don't last forever. I am thinking about resetting it whenever a battle happens or something.


Weaver

  • Guest
Re: Feature Request: War Report
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2015, 07:26:39 AM »
My first impressions on using this tool.

Since I don't have access to the House of Order, I declared war on Lannshire as Avalon, to reflect the civil war. I identified the two big strategic places that I want (Which was a huge hassle, but understandable), and used the declare war button.

Now the problem is. I got one of the two, but the character is from the Imperium of Aelwyn, not Avalon, so it's not showing up as under my control. I believe this could be more easily rectified by a swift addition of adding additional attacker realms, or giving people the choice to join wars.

Tom

  • Head Developer
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6320
  • Karma: +102/-15
    • View Profile
    • Might & Fealty
Re: Feature Request: War Report
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2015, 11:40:10 AM »
The war concept does not yet include alliances, and I'm not sure if I want to add that or not. Big alliance blocks are the death of games like this, so I am very careful in supporting them.

Yes, the settlement selection is a big hassle. I'm working on improving it, ideally I want a map to click. For the moment, check the latest update I've made to it to allow search and more comfortable select/deselect.

Weaver

  • Guest
Re: Feature Request: War Report
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2015, 09:10:54 PM »
I like it quite a bit more.

Personally, I would find it very much more preferable if there was a final chance to tweak some of the options- namely, who exactly is attacking- for proxy wars in example; IE: I as a ruler can declare a war, but set another Realm up as the attacker (With it noted who exactly declared the war, which would be me.) Then again, I could just ask the ruler of that Realm to declare the wars himself. But it would be handy if we could choose subrealms of our realms.

But more importantly, it would be very handy if we could tweak the Realm we are wanting to attack. Right now, the game thinks I am at war with the entire Imperium. Technically this is true, but in reality, the Imperium is at war with the Duchies. If I had the option to set 'Imperium' or 'House of Order' (Which I did, I just forgot to abdicate when I was setting it up) as the attacker, and Mae, who holds Westhold as 'My Previous Vassal/Ally/Other Noble', there would be no issues.

Tom

  • Head Developer
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6320
  • Karma: +102/-15
    • View Profile
    • Might & Fealty
Re: Feature Request: War Report
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2015, 10:42:35 PM »
Personally, I would find it very much more preferable if there was a final chance to tweak some of the options- namely, who exactly is attacking- for proxy wars in example; IE: I as a ruler can declare a war, but set another Realm up as the attacker

What kind of ruler would you be if someone else could declare a war for you?


Quote
But more importantly, it would be very handy if we could tweak the Realm we are wanting to attack.

You can. You will attack the realm(s) that own the settlement(s) that you choose as target(s).

To me it makes no sense to declare an estate of realm X as a target, but claim you aren't really at war with realm X, but with realm Y. That just makes no sense whatsoever.



Weaver

  • Guest
Re: Feature Request: War Report
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2015, 06:25:04 AM »
Does it matter what kind of ruler I'd be? It's a sandbox game. If I want to play a coward hiding behind proxy wars, why not. But that is besides the point.

Right now, if someone wanted to attack Leavudran, they'd declare war against the whole Imperium. That means the entire Imperium will smash whoever declared that war. But if it was just Leavudran, why would the Imperium care? Same thing with all the other realms. Most of them run semi independent subrealms that they wouldn't support in a war. If you will select which estate you will attack, let the defender in the counter-declaration of war, decide exactly who they will be fighting.

Tweeznax

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 339
  • Karma: +11/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Feature Request: War Report
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2015, 07:19:45 AM »
Tom was referring to the ruler of a sub realm. The ruler of the over-realm should not be able to declare wars in the name of sub realms specifically. That is the right of those rulers.

Tom

  • Head Developer
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6320
  • Karma: +102/-15
    • View Profile
    • Might & Fealty
Re: Feature Request: War Report
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2015, 11:38:23 AM »
Right now, if someone wanted to attack Leavudran, they'd declare war against the whole Imperium. That means the entire Imperium will smash whoever declared that war. But if it was just Leavudran, why would the Imperium care? Same thing with all the other realms. Most of them run semi independent subrealms that they wouldn't support in a war. If you will select which estate you will attack, let the defender in the counter-declaration of war, decide exactly who they will be fighting.

I can't find a settlement with that name on the map, so I don't know which realm exactly it belongs to, but:

If it is a part of the Imperium then yes, you are declaring war on a royal province.
If it is part of a subrealm, then the feudal oath comes into effect - service for protection.

What I think you are aiming for and that would be a useful extension - is a way for a ruler to withdraw from a war and say "actually, I don't care if you attack this baron under me". Of course that should result in a major political issue, but the option should exist. But for that I need to change the calculation of involved realms from dynamic to static. Basically: It's a good idea, I will consider it, it will take some time to add.


Ratharing

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 505
  • Karma: +25/-12
    • View Profile
Re: Feature Request: War Report
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2015, 02:06:59 PM »
You can't declare war to non-independent realms? Why is that, Tom? Not all realms work under the feudal code.

Weaver

  • Guest
Re: Feature Request: War Report
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2015, 07:44:07 PM »
Basically, yes, that's exactly that Tom. With that addition we could also simulate what me and Rathgar are saying as well.

Tom

  • Head Developer
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6320
  • Karma: +102/-15
    • View Profile
    • Might & Fealty
Re: Feature Request: War Report
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2015, 10:01:31 PM »
You can't declare war to non-independent realms? Why is that, Tom? Not all realms work under the feudal code.

What you mean? At the moment, war is declared on settlements, and only by proxy on realms.

Weaver

  • Guest
Re: Feature Request: War Report
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2015, 12:59:47 AM »
I think what he means is there are realms that are more tribal, and less feudal. They all belong to the same Realm the same way that the 'Norse' was kind of like a faction, but the subrealms were all mostly sovereign. They just collectively beat up the Romans.


Rathgar is a prime example where Realms can fight each other. Right now, the system would not work, because when Tribe A declares war on Tribe B, Tribe A is actually declaring war on Rathgar, and then everyone in Rathgar thinks they're under attack. Instead of Tribe B.