Author Topic: Bandit Shame  (Read 2559 times)

De-Legro

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Bandit Shame
« on: November 16, 2015, 01:57:28 AM »
Let me shame the player of Harm the Bandit (ID 2148) who has been observed repeatedly attacking a new character (ID 5221) who is simply establish them self as a independent Lord of an abandoned settlement.
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Daimall

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Re: Bandit Shame
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2015, 05:16:58 AM »
I am the person playing Harm, I have been RPing him as some sort of mortal defenders of the "Free" villages and the ones next to it from the depredations of First Ones. Unfortunately it seems both were taken while Harm was "patrolling" between them.


I have already established my intentions to another First One in the estate nearby and I did not do this to intentionally pick on a new character. I have sent him a message explaining my characters intentions ICly, but he has yet to respond at all.


I was planning on having my character flirt between those region until someone just smashes him, but if this is considered an abuse then I will just figure out something else.


(Edit: Don't know why the font for some words suddenly became small.)
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 05:36:38 AM by Daimall »

De-Legro

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Re: Bandit Shame
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2015, 05:29:44 AM »
I am the person playing Harm, I have been RPing him as some sort of mortal defenders of the "Free" villages and the ones next to it from the depredations of First Ones. Unfortunately it seems both were taken while Harm was "patrolling" between them.


I have already established my intentions to another First One in the estate nearby and I did not do this to intentionally pick on a new character. I have sent him a message explaining my characters intentions ICly, but he has yet to respond at all.


I was planning on having my character flirt between those region until someone just smashes him, but if this is considered an abuse then I will just figure out something else.


The character is marked as new, with a nice little suggestion, please act accordingly. Attacking him as repeatedly as soon as your troop regroup is hardly welcoming to a new player.
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Daimall

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Re: Bandit Shame
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2015, 05:40:14 AM »
I don't think I was attacking him as soon as they regrouped, but okay then. I will leave as soon as the current battle finishes. How much time is enough time for someone to respond to a message though?

De-Legro

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Re: Bandit Shame
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2015, 05:42:25 AM »
I don't think I was attacking him as soon as they regrouped, but okay then. I will leave as soon as the current battle finishes. How much time is enough time for someone to respond to a message though?


Depends on the player, some players take days. More then likely that player is simply not coming back.
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HarkonRules

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Re: Bandit Shame
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2015, 12:10:27 PM »
Daimall, do whatever you want, you're roleplaying and even sending messages explaining yourself. That's more than enough for even a newbie, just because they're new doesn't mean they can't have "inconveniences" and have to be catered to and handheld, especially if it has flavour to it. Hell, the type of player that this game would benefit from, WOULD find such a scenario interesting even.

Don't let others dictate your roleplay.

De-Legro

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Re: Bandit Shame
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2015, 12:25:28 PM »
Daimall, do whatever you want, you're roleplaying and even sending messages explaining yourself. That's more than enough for even a newbie, just because they're new doesn't mean they can't have "inconveniences" and have to be catered to and handheld, especially if it has flavour to it. Hell, the type of player that this game would benefit from, WOULD find such a scenario interesting even.

Don't let others dictate your roleplay.


If you can't separate RP from continually attacking a new noble with 1 rabble solider, with over 100, when it is likely the player is still trying to come to grips with how the game works, then your aren't focusing on the RP. But thats fine. I won't let people dictate my RP next time I decided to gather the armies of Hawks, and just go and smash some small realm, because my character is a jerk.


We need players of all kinds and inclinations, and the entire reason Tom added the new player indication was to ensure we gave them some consideration while they are still learning the game.
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HarkonRules

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Re: Bandit Shame
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2015, 12:35:06 PM »
Yeah, and I'm sure Daimall saw the indication. What, you want him to get banned? At least he put in the effort, and we have no right to judge if his RP is legit or not. What's the point of a sandbox if it's going to be nazi regulated?

De-Legro

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Re: Bandit Shame
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2015, 12:48:31 PM »
Yeah, and I'm sure Daimall saw the indication. What, you want him to get banned? At least he put in the effort, and we have no right to judge if his RP is legit or not. What's the point of a sandbox if it's going to be nazi regulated?


If I wanted him banned, I would have simply messaged Tom. A waste of time mind you, since I am more then aware Tom isn't going to ban anyone over such things. Did I want to highlight that we could focus on being more considerate to new members of our community, so that they might remain members of our community and the game continues to grow, rather then goes backwards like has happened in the past. We had a massive player retention problem, things like the new player indication helped reverse that.
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Lann

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Re: Bandit Shame
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2015, 10:10:22 PM »
I am of a different school of thought, De Legro-- that we don't have to hold anyone's hand no matter how old or new, as doing so coddles your player base and sets them up with wrong expectations.  If they're going to be offended by getting attacked now, they'll be offended just as much later.  And I don't particularly care to play a game where everyone is afraid of stepping on everyone else's feelings.  Nope.  A bandit attack without support is one of many things that can happen in the game when you decide to split off and make your own realm, and you either prepare for that and accept the risks or you suffer the consequences.  But nobody is entitled to take it easy on anyone. 


Besides, what makes you think a bandit attack would drive a new player off or hurt player retention?  Or any attack for that matter?  This is a common theory, no matter what game you play, and it always centers around the idea that you have to hold onto new players as though they're precious china or they'll break.  Yet I've never seen actual concrete data in ANY of those games to prove this theory remotely true.  Everyone just gets their underwear in a twist, screams "but think of the children...", and then the loudest, most victimizing-sounding complainers get their way, regardless of whether they're actually right or whether what they propose is good for the game itself.  And the irony is some people DO quit, but not because of the guys that go around being 'mean', but because everything gets too structured, tame and boring. And when certain people try to inject some fun and unpredictability into the equation, they get shouted down and called 'griefers' and worse for their efforts, and then other players start trying to force them to quit or get them banned since they won't fall in line.  Funny how little player retention seems to matter, then...


De-Legro, I'm not accusing you of being a part of this group, but your words steer dangerously close to it.  And I disagree with them, strongly, completely, and for as long as I will ever play this game.  I cannot speak for everyone who plays Might&Fealty (and I would ask you not do so either), but I seriously doubt retention will be hurt at all by this bandit's actions.  I, for one, when I joined this game, did so knowing full well what could happen at any time and accepted it. Believe it or not, some of us get off on the risk, WANT it even.  We like the idea that anything we gain can be lost if we don't play our cards right.  I can't speak for this new player or his desires, but I can tell you that if this game were so tame as to not have that risk, even when I first started, I probably would have quit long ago. 



Anyway, congratulations, Daimall, for playing your part as a bandit well, and role-playing your actions.  Also, welcome to the game, Ak-Sai Sanarren!  Hopefully, you'll gain some wisdom from this current experience and stick around to be a contributing member of Might&Fealty.  It can be a treacherous but incredibly fun world.  Hope you're up for it and I sincerely look forward to seeing how you do. 
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 10:14:41 PM by Lann »

De-Legro

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Re: Bandit Shame
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2015, 11:59:52 PM »
I, for one, when I joined this game, did so knowing full well what could happen at any time and accepted it. Believe it or not, some of us get off on the risk, WANT it even. 


There we go, finally people say what is important. Let me fill you in on what I know from guiding upwards of 50 players into this game now. Most people DON'T understand this when joining. The bulk of knight offers I get filled are not from people who have friends playing the game and they have little understanding. They don't get the slow speed, they don't get the possible harshness of the sandbox. They need time to be taught those things, to have their expectations managed. That is why the New Player message does not last for ever, and in my opinion is probably a tad long in duration to start with.



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Mookzen

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Re: Bandit Shame
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2015, 12:01:59 AM »
Just move on, even if everything is undone, embrace the new beginning.

HarkonRules

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Re: Bandit Shame
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2015, 03:47:24 AM »
Just no, De-Legro. Tryharding to give newbies the most handheld experience ever in the end will be futile for retention. It's a charm and level of freedom and danger that people either must love or hate, even if they get to understand mechanics by having an artificial experience, at first sign of real dickwaddery will inevitably happen and hinder them, they'll just cry and leave.

We should treat new players as well as possible and help them if they join our realm, but no threat is beneath anyone and the sooner and more organically they realize this, the more time everyone saves as they either know it's the game for them, or it isn't.

De-Legro

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Re: Bandit Shame
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2015, 04:00:16 AM »
Just no, De-Legro. Tryharding to give newbies the most handheld experience ever in the end will be futile for retention. It's a charm and level of freedom and danger that people either must love or hate, even if they get to understand mechanics by having an artificial experience, at first sign of real dickwaddery will inevitably happen and hinder them, they'll just cry and leave.

We should treat new players as well as possible and help them if they join our realm, but no threat is beneath anyone and the sooner and more organically they realize this, the more time everyone saves as they either know it's the game for them, or it isn't.


Right cause you know, difficulty never increases in games as understanding and skill increases. Tutorials NEVER restrict features and add to them as you grasp the basics, no never. The point is to ease them in so they DO understand they are not being unfairly targeted. That way when the harsh reality hits, they understand that it is part of the game, and not someone griefing them.
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Arx

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Re: Bandit Shame
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2015, 08:36:20 AM »
If, when I had joined the game, I had been repeatedly attacked by the same bandit, I would probably have written the player off as a troll, the community as terrible, and the game as not worth my time. I'm with De-Legro, here. If getting into a game is made difficult by the playerbase, then... it's just a game, why should I bother? If there's a RP basis for it, it's a bit better, but... if that's what the game is like, why do I want to play it? M&F is already freaking impenetrable without people harassing newbies. At least give them a day or so before opening up on them.

I do think the label sticks around for too long (I'm apparently still a newbie, despite knowing pretty much everything meaningful about the game), but I think it should be respected, at least a little. Don't wrap 'em up in cotton wool and hope they don't break, but give them a slightly easier time.