Author Topic: Aggression without Interaction  (Read 2960 times)

Tom

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Aggression without Interaction
« on: July 23, 2015, 07:23:49 AM »
It's time for me to rage on my own game.

One of my characters has a tiny two-estate home somewhere in the middle of nowhere. He has made some enemies in his time, so when they came through recently to loot it, that was expected, though a little frustrating because due to overwhelming forces he didn't stand a chance. But with a few messages back and forth, at least it was playing.

Now, while I'm still trying to rebuild my forces and have like 20 militia, half a dozen nobles that I've never met, from a small kingdom I've never seen, show up and attack with hundreds of soldiers. No messages, no claims, nothing. Just silence and attacks. I don't know what they want, I don't know what for they attack. I can do nothing but fight (since they are moving, I can't start communication myself, I'm now moving back to one of the estates not to fight, but just so I can talk to them, but frankly speaking I expect nothing but silence).

I'm an inch short of adding some code that forces you to enter a few lines of talk before you attack someone or a settlement.

I don't mind being attacked. In this game, I've lost entire realms already, so I'm sure nobody can tell me I feel sad because I'm losing something. But this feeling of being attacked out of nowhere, for no apparent reason with no interaction is pissing me off.

WVH

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Re: Aggression without Interaction
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2015, 08:13:19 AM »
What about a motivation selection for the reason of battle:  "To be a dickhead" could be an option.

Seriously though, maybe start with battle opening a line of communication between the two parties even if they would not physically be able to communicate.  We have the Geas as precedence.

Instead of Geas being only established when surrendering, one for talking could start at the beginning of battle.

FARevolution

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Re: Aggression without Interaction
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2015, 08:20:42 AM »
Wait... You mean to tell me I get one of this THIS bad boys if I surrender?


In all seriousness though, Tom, your Red island isn't the one being under attack now is it?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 08:30:17 AM by FARevolution »

Dorian

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Re: Aggression without Interaction
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2015, 09:24:19 AM »
It's time for me to rage on my own game.

One of my characters has a tiny two-estate home somewhere in the middle of nowhere. He has made some enemies in his time, so when they came through recently to loot it, that was expected, though a little frustrating because due to overwhelming forces he didn't stand a chance. But with a few messages back and forth, at least it was playing.

Now, while I'm still trying to rebuild my forces and have like 20 militia, half a dozen nobles that I've never met, from a small kingdom I've never seen, show up and attack with hundreds of soldiers. No messages, no claims, nothing. Just silence and attacks. I don't know what they want, I don't know what for they attack. I can do nothing but fight (since they are moving, I can't start communication myself, I'm now moving back to one of the estates not to fight, but just so I can talk to them, but frankly speaking I expect nothing but silence).

I'm an inch short of adding some code that forces you to enter a few lines of talk before you attack someone or a settlement.

I don't mind being attacked. In this game, I've lost entire realms already, so I'm sure nobody can tell me I feel sad because I'm losing something. But this feeling of being attacked out of nowhere, for no apparent reason with no interaction is pissing me off.


As one of the players behind this I only feel sorry that I didn't have time last night to send a message to the owner of the settlement, announcing the intent! I planned for it, but fail to find the time for it.

In any case, your ruler obviously did not communicate this with you. The blame is on him for keeping you in the dark, not the players that have a good and growing story behind it. Sarantines have been negotiating over the Red Island for at least several weeks now.

This is a good example how badly we need region-wide communication groups. If these existed you'd probably be aware why you are being attacked.

WVH

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Re: Aggression without Interaction
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2015, 06:51:28 PM »
Hmm... Not only will the region wide communication channel be great, even if it is only a news report type thing.  But also a hush option on some channels.

Not a leave conversation completely button but just a "hey, not important to this character currently" option.  I have had background characters become very important very quickly and then see them fade again and resurface.  Having the ability to hush some conversations would help us to not miss other important conversations.

What I mean by that is: A rulers son for example may be in a council but really not need to speak up much.  However be required to be there for RP or government reasons.  Lets say 20 messages take place in a day and I check with my ruler character, but get tired of always checking on BOTH so I begin loosing track of how many messages come through.

Then the Son has a 21st message from someone else but I miss it because I am not paying attention to the others.

First world problem?

Tweeznax

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Re: Aggression without Interaction
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2015, 04:51:58 PM »
It's time for me to rage on my own game.

One of my characters has a tiny two-estate home somewhere in the middle of nowhere. He has made some enemies in his time, so when they came through recently to loot it, that was expected, though a little frustrating because due to overwhelming forces he didn't stand a chance. But with a few messages back and forth, at least it was playing.

Now, while I'm still trying to rebuild my forces and have like 20 militia, half a dozen nobles that I've never met, from a small kingdom I've never seen, show up and attack with hundreds of soldiers. No messages, no claims, nothing. Just silence and attacks. I don't know what they want, I don't know what for they attack. I can do nothing but fight (since they are moving, I can't start communication myself, I'm now moving back to one of the estates not to fight, but just so I can talk to them, but frankly speaking I expect nothing but silence).

I'm an inch short of adding some code that forces you to enter a few lines of talk before you attack someone or a settlement.

I don't mind being attacked. In this game, I've lost entire realms already, so I'm sure nobody can tell me I feel sad because I'm losing something. But this feeling of being attacked out of nowhere, for no apparent reason with no interaction is pissing me off.

That particular character seems to have pretty much nothing but bad luck from what I've seen!

De-Legro

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Re: Aggression without Interaction
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2015, 12:18:03 PM »

As one of the players behind this I only feel sorry that I didn't have time last night to send a message to the owner of the settlement, announcing the intent! I planned for it, but fail to find the time for it.

In any case, your ruler obviously did not communicate this with you. The blame is on him for keeping you in the dark, not the players that have a good and growing story behind it. Sarantines have been negotiating over the Red Island for at least several weeks now.

This is a good example how badly we need region-wide communication groups. If these existed you'd probably be aware why you are being attacked.


Or since the characters are in interaction range in order to attack, they could you know, just send a simple message.
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Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Aggression without Interaction
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2015, 09:17:49 PM »

Or since the characters are in interaction range in order to attack, they could you know, just send a simple message.

De-Legro, being passive aggressive with players that are newer is not conducive to the well-being of the game.

De-Legro

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Re: Aggression without Interaction
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2015, 01:36:22 PM »
De-Legro, being passive aggressive with players that are newer is not conducive to the well-being of the game.


It was a simply suggestion. Read into it what your own personality and experiance prompt for you, but it was a simple fact. For battles to occur people are within messaging range, and people had time to log in and press a button. Writing a few sentences even on a smart phone takes but a few minutes.
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Lann

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Re: Aggression without Interaction
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2015, 06:49:46 PM »
I play at work, which is where I do the majority of my role-playing, writing, and actions.  However, sometimes I play on my phone.  But when I do, I have VERY little time and I don't write messages there.  Just enough time to click a few buttons and log out for the rest of the day.  And no, I won't be writing messages just to accommodate your feelings.  Neither do I accept that everyone must because some people might appreciate it.  I'm sorry; the guy said he didn't have time-- I believe him.  You don't know his personal life or what may have sprouted up.  You don't know if his phone is difficult to handle or type on.  You don't know if his character is more long-winded, but he doesn't have time for such a message and a short one would be 'out-of-character.'  You don't know if he suddenly had to take a friend to the hospital. You don't know, and if we're being honest, he owes you no explanation.


Moreover, I don't think people should be forced to announce their intentions before doing battle.  I usually do because I am one of those players that DOES like roleplay and interaction.  But sometimes, you just gotta ambush a guy.  Sometimes you have those night raids where soldiers burst through the gates and attack.  There's no time to say "Hey you!  I don't like your face so, kiss your settlement goodbye!" Not every noble has to stand on a hill and pronounce his justifications loudly for everyone to understand, and if a feature were implemented that forced me to 'type' a reason for every attack, I guarantee a good many of them will be followed up with "..."  as the 'reason'.


Look, I'm not trying to be a dick here, I'm just playing devil's advocate.  But I'm really troubled by this demanding from everyone in the community toward everyone else to play 'this way' or 'that way'.  It has never worked and it will never work.  People try to fit in with what others want but then they do something that someone doesn't like and everyone starts crying and pointing fingers, even at all the people here that love to interact and role-play.   After a while, you just have to accept that if you leave open a way for people to play, they're going to play that way; and you're not going to like it. You can accept that and move on or Tom could try to code things in a way that provokes a more desired response.  But if you're expecting the community to just do what you want when you want it, it's not going to happen.  We're human.  We all have a different opinion of how the game should play or can play and we're going to step on each other's comfort zones.  And I don't think that's bad.


But all this whining about how we should play DOES kind of ruin my mojo and make me consider going for a different game as the developer here actually DOES listen to it and sometimes even physically gets involved and punish players for using the mechanics he gave to them because they were doing it in a way that the 'community' didn't like at any given time. And yeah, while I understand why you did it Tom, that's still kind of messed up and confuses your base about what is considered 'acceptable' and 'not acceptable'.  A more appropriate response would have been to consider what your players might do and build your game mechanics around preventing that kind of behavior rather than counting of the goodness of people's hearts. 

You say the attacking party should have wrote his intentions.  Well-- how about Tom's character reaching out diplomatically so they know the disposition of their neighbors?  This is just common sense for a lord.  My main character has been spending a great deal of time just trying to get to know the world around his dutchy expressly so things like this don't sneak up on him.  How about inquiring from your liege lord about the politics of the region?  If he's not communicating, then maybe it's best to bring that up.  It's negligence that a liege lord would not let his vassals know about a war starting and that's actually pretty good reason to abandon that lord and see if the enemy will give you your lost settlements back if you join them.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2015, 07:00:29 PM by Lann »

De-Legro

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Re: Aggression without Interaction
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2015, 02:14:41 AM »
How does an ambush affect this. You aren't writing a message then doing nothing. You click attack, you then write a message, "The trap is sprung, the prey is doomed" or whatever.

No one is going to add mechanics to force this, but we have to face the simple reality that not doing it angers people, angry people quit and frankly the game doesn't have the player base to simply ignore such matters.

I totally get not having time. On the 10 of July my twin brother passed unexpectantly, I was absent from the game for three weeks pretty much. I could have logged into my phone to press battle buttons for events already in motion, but I knew I would not have the time to follow up. Many of those characters are dead now, having sat around settlements with troops and no explination. It comes down to what is more important to the player base, hitting the buttons and "win" things or if they want to foster a richer atmosphere.
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Tom

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Re: Aggression without Interaction
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2015, 07:43:19 AM »
I start discussions like that to get feedback, and if someone explains why I'm totally off, that's good feedback as well.

Of course, enforcing certain acts is against the spirit of the game. But I would absolutely like to make it easier. For example, in this case my characters COULD NOT reach out to the attackers, because they were not in the settlements being attacked. An option for the lord of a land to send a message to anyone in the land or something like it would be a solution. This plays with the "regional boards" discussion elsewhere.

Ehndras

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Re: Aggression without Interaction
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2015, 01:13:40 PM »
I start discussions like that to get feedback, and if someone explains why I'm totally off, that's good feedback as well.

Of course, enforcing certain acts is against the spirit of the game. But I would absolutely like to make it easier. For example, in this case my characters COULD NOT reach out to the attackers, because they were not in the settlements being attacked. An option for the lord of a land to send a message to anyone in the land or something like it would be a solution. This plays with the "regional boards" discussion elsewhere.


I absolutely have to second this and the "attack message" concept. It would remove a great deal of frustration.


And perhaps have the message option be "optional", insofar as not needing to type something in and defaulting to a preset of your choosing.


a "You have been attacked! (perhaps, in addition, "by such-and such people!")) default message would be nice, overriding the incredibly annoying limitations on talking to people within your extremely limited interaction distance - which frankly makes little sense considering we have magic talking rocks that let us communicatewith that one guy we never spoke to at that brief gathering halfway across the known world three years ago in a realm that no longer exists. ;)
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GrayLaw

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Re: Aggression without Interaction
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2015, 12:02:32 AM »
This just happened to me. I recently re-joined playing the game, after trying the trial out in March 2014. As a background:
My character took control of a region on 7-46-3.
On 7-51-4, two nobles with 59 soldiers enter the settlement.
On 7-51-6, they have taken control.
They did not make any contact with my character prior to them arriving and initiating take control actions. Of course I attacked them, since they were trying to take my estate. My 19 soldiers (which were 18 rabbles and 1 light infantry) were obviously nothing against their 59, which included 14 light infantry and 9 medium infantry.
Now they are on to the next estate for that character. To top it off, the liege of my character is a new player who is also probably going to be swarmed by these people (who are part of a large realm). I messaged him/her about the attack, but I haven't received a response - so they may not even be playing anymore.

For new players, I can very easily see this "aggression without interaction" causing them to leave the game, especially those playing on the free accounts that really have nothing to lose by quitting. In turn, potential money is lost by losing those players who may have eventually started paying for a different subscription level.

*Edit: I just checked. They have already taken over the estate of the new player (the liege of my character), presumably also without any interaction.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2015, 12:06:36 AM by GrayLaw »

Tom

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Re: Aggression without Interaction
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2015, 01:08:15 AM »
Nothing will be gained by enforcing a message. People will just say "..." or something like that. You know, fill in the minimum character count and that's it.