Author Topic: Erstes Imperium  (Read 6991 times)

Roran Hawkins

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Re: Erstes Imperium
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2015, 04:46:46 PM »
Gahahhah nice guess  ;D
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Weaver

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Re: Erstes Imperium
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2015, 04:49:48 PM »
Good stuff, told you! :D

Lann

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Re: Erstes Imperium
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2015, 07:44:37 PM »
Martyn Lann is doing well and pursuing the war effort against Eldamar ruthlessly.  His desire is to set up the Empire, and by extension his house, as a dominant influence in the South that will make other kingdoms think twice before challenging it.  To that end, the current war is important because it sets the tone of how Erstes will deal with those it goes into conflict with in the future.  It's also a great opportunity for Martyn to prove his own competence as a general, and he's hoping the result will put his family in high regard by the Emperor. 

netforce10

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Re: Erstes Imperium
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2015, 08:26:07 PM »
Nevara is if anything quite overwhelmed at the moment with trying to balance his new find task of Custos and the war, Hoping he is able to carve out his place within the empire.

Weaver

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Re: Erstes Imperium
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2015, 10:19:48 PM »
I do believe this is a good time to achieve many things- I know for sure that the prestige gained from this war will not be overlooked. Certain changes to the Empire will take effect after the War, and, I suppose, it won't feel as an impersonal umbrella above our heads following the changes- but rather a much more interactive and lively environment. Though, the war may also be a very rare chance to accumulate this prestige.


The Erstes Imperium is pretty large, and demonstrating the ability to wage a successful war will no doubt put us in a decent period of peace. So long as Weaver is Emperor, I don't see how EI could be an aggressive Empire- but that is also part of the changes that will take effect- I think, given enough effort, we could create an expeditionary Legion, to send to the corners of the world that will fight in wars for the glory of it, with nothing else to gain. What are your thoughts on such an endeavor?

Aly_Fontaine

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Re: Erstes Imperium
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2015, 12:29:03 AM »
None in Eldamar really cares. We are overmatched and outmaneuvered. I have to say EI are being pretty savage in their engagements with lone nobles or with few men. Fairly sure you'll be able to take your pick soon. Where will it end?

Weaver

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Re: Erstes Imperium
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2015, 08:40:46 AM »
I have wondered about that as well, for a very long time. Where does it end? For an Empire, mobilizing a large number of troops for a long period, it is extremely inconvenient. Realistically, it should cost a lot- mechanically, it would also be much more convenient if all the troops were inside the walls, boosting the economy.


But on another hand, EI is not a normal empire, and that is not a normal army. When Weaver announced his intent of war with Eldamar, he said 'War of Retribution'. The word retribution, came from the consensus among the Nobles- that leads into their savagery. I think, in general, the line is drawn there when Eldamar decides to sue for peace- or until the war becomes inconvenient in every way for us to continue it.

What that last one means, I am not entirely sure. From my perspective, I have to balance the needs of the people ICly and OOCly. And not just those of EI, but of Eldamar as well. I would not, in any way, consider making Eldamar's nobles rage-quit because of senseless slaughter an achievement. It is true we are attempting to capture the leaders of Eldamar, but I am also aware that in doing so, they might get killed instead.


In record, this war is known as the Consolidation War. That is one method that I perceived as least damaging to the OOC perspective of EI- and least damaging to Eldamar. But, more of that, will have to be shared ICly.


But I ask the same question to everyone else. Where will it end? Where do we draw the line and go home?

Aly_Fontaine

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Re: Erstes Imperium
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2015, 09:06:31 AM »
Appreciate your candor. Been asking those in power to negotiate for a week. We have had blight recently and king away ill so expect negotiations soon?

Weaver

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Re: Erstes Imperium
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2015, 09:28:57 AM »
I have not received anything ICly. I suppose that means the Nobles want this war to go on- I suppose, your best bet would be to wait for Weaver to arrive to the front lines, and then sue peace with him yourself- though, I have already started making moves towards communication as well.


I think it will be just in time.


EDIT: I originally misunderstood you- I get it now. Yeah, I'll be expecting negotiations soon. But until then, OOCly I hope that most of you can flee successfully.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 10:06:19 AM by Weaver »

Aly_Fontaine

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Re: Erstes Imperium
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2015, 10:53:23 AM »
Look forward to hearing your terms. Good coordination from your guys.

Zandar

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Re: Erstes Imperium
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2015, 03:25:21 PM »
None in Eldamar really cares. We are overmatched and outmaneuvered. I have to say EI are being pretty savage in their engagements with lone nobles or with few men. Fairly sure you'll be able to take your pick soon. Where will it end?

You can always bring matters to the attention of that Chivalrous War concept people floated about. Pretty sure there are still some very powerful realms willing to step in when they are advised of people partaking in war conduct that is not "fun" for all parties.

Lann

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Re: Erstes Imperium
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2015, 06:26:07 PM »
You can always bring matters to the attention of that Chivalrous War concept people floated about. Pretty sure there are still some very powerful realms willing to step in when they are advised of people partaking in war conduct that is not "fun" for all parties.


Forgive my saying it, but I simply can't be bothered with whether anyone finds a war 'fun' or not.  We, as players, are responsible for our own fun alone, and if war doesn't seem fun to you because you're losing, well-- you've only yourself to blame.  Joining in a conflict you have no stake in because you perceive one side isn't having 'fun' is dramatically out-of-character to say the least. 


I know this isn't a well-liked perspective but some of us play deliberately ruthless, Machiavellian characters.  Martyn Lann is one such character.  To play as him, I've been having to read everything from The Prince to The Art of War.   I won't claim to be a mastermind as I, the player behind him, don't consider myself all that intelligent a strategist and am liable to make goof ups here and there; but I do my best to roleplay a character that follows the kind of maxims and principles I've read here.  As such, from an in-character perspective, I CANNOT justify why our Empire SHOULDN'T prosecute the war until its enemies completely lose their ability to remain a threat.


And Eldamar is a threat.  It attacked the Erstes Empire, executed one its nobles, and did so under the pretext of taking territory, 'testing its military's strength', and sealing a trade agreement with Ryne.  Given the Empire's history with Ryne and Elysium, it knows it has a lot of enemies and it simply cannot tolerate yet another one on its eastern border ready and waiting to attack it whenever self-interest serves them to do so.  To pull back simply because Eldamar now says "This isn't fun anymore..." would be naive and ridiculous to the extreme, not to mention wholly out-of-character.  Your ideas of 'chivalrous war' are not accepted everywhere and honestly, shouldn't be, because it's stupid and ridiculous.  The whole thought of it predicates on us stepping completely out-of-character just to attack each other from relative safety and then return our characters to their lands without consequence because that'd be more 'fun' for everyone involved. 


Sorry, but that's not my idea of fun; and I'm not going to ruin my own immersion for the sake of your amusement. My character does not see war as some arena joust where two sides fight each other on equal ground and then go home waving "good game!" to each other.  He sees war as it's always been for generations, a contest between two entities for dominance.  It isn't for nice people.  It's is about destroying an opponent's capacity of resistance in all forms, by politically undermining them, killing them, driving wedges between them and their allies, and eliminating the bonds of trust and friendship that bind a faction's members together.  As William Tecumseh Sherman would say, it is by its very definition, an act of cruelty and you cannot refine it. 


He's seen Kingdoms and nobles and lords fall within a short period of them taking command due to trivial ideals like chivalry and does not want to follow in their footsteps. Rather, he wishes to set a legacy that will last long after he's gone and make his family one of the most powerful in the land so that NO ONE can depose it. That means winning wars instead of just fighting them. That means crushing and eliminating opposition savagely rather than letting them live another day so they can mount a resistance or stab him in the back.  That means getting his hands dirty and playing the villain for the sake of his Empire when necessary.  It doesn't mean he won't come to the negotiation table, but there has to be a clear gain with his enemies no longer posing a threat. 


Don't like it or find it fun...?  Well, I'm sorry but you are 100% responsible for the repercussions of your character's actions.  Just as I am.  If you don't like the potential consequences of waging a war, then don't wage one.  Don't attack someone and expect them to tie their hands behind their backs.  They won't.  Martyn Lann won't. And I don't expect your characters to but if he does, Martyn WILL take advantage of it and punish them for doing so. 
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 06:29:55 PM by Lann »

Weaver

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Re: Erstes Imperium
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2015, 07:19:52 PM »
Now, now, while I don't mind people making their thoughts known and discussing differences, let's keep actual current IC events away from the forum. We have to maintain partiality at all times, which requires us to not have to justify ourselves on a OOC board.


As for the discussion- personally, I strive by ICA=ICC- otherwise known as In Character Actions equal In Character Consequences. While I do not take joy in fighting a war, and harming what people have built up, from an in character perspective, if the one being harmed does not for any reason, when faced with certain threat, want to change his ways- then I take that as a 'Yes, I am ready to lose X' from the player of that character. I believe it is only a rare circumstance where a player's OOC wishes and IC wishes are not in sufficient alignment. But I lead an Empire. I cannot question every minority, ICly, 'Are you sure you want to do this'. I have my vassals to consider. Foreign reputation to consider. All sorts of things. My hand is more often than not forced into doing what I don't want to do, yet have to make the best of it.


If I was on the receiving end of the same situation, it'd be no different.

Tom

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Re: Erstes Imperium
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2015, 11:30:34 PM »
Sorry, but that's not my idea of fun; and I'm not going to ruin my own immersion for the sake of your amusement. My character does not see war as some arena joust where two sides fight each other on equal ground and then go home waving "good game!" to each other.

The point is that you might see it differently from your character.

It's like writing a good book or a good movie. Usually, the story is best when the hero is not flawless and perfect. When the author intentionally lets him make mistakes.

Tom

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Re: Erstes Imperium
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2015, 11:32:55 PM »
I agree with Weaver here.

The world our characters inhabit is more complicated than what the game simulates. It is fully "immersive", to quote Lann, to worry about your reputation, word among the peasants, or how the gods will view your actions, even if you, the player, know that none of this matters because there is no game code about it.