Author Topic: New Permission System Design  (Read 2497 times)

Foxglove

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 534
  • Karma: +72/-10
    • View Profile
Re: New Permission System Design
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2014, 11:26:39 PM »
I don't have a problem with the existing format of the permission system, aside from it does take a lot of repetitive clicking to grant access for any particular characters to things. So I'm in the camp of thinking the lists system its basically fine, but could do with some reduction in the repetition.

I don't like the idea of not being able to exclude anyone I choose from entering a settlement because they've joined the realm and so get access to all settlements due to a blanket realm-wide permission giving them access. This could also lead to invasion exploits caused by people joining realms or creating characters simply to get access through the gates of all settlements and circumvent the walls. Although it would be easy to identify such an abuse, it would be better to avoid it in the first place. If it's a case of allow everyone in, or allow no-one in, it's a bit too simple to deal with the social complexities of the game.

If you do choose to move to a realm value access level for settlement entry, please at least keep some way to specifically exclude particular characters (although that in itself won't stop anyone exploiting realm value settlement access to bypass settlement walls by creating characters in-realm because it would be too difficult for a settlement owner to keep updating an exclusion list).
Standing for the responsible use of power since Year 1, Week 1, Day 1.
Fun fact: I wrote some of the text for the M&F crowdfunding campaign.
Favourite warm beverage: hot chocolate.

WVH

  • The Lost
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 293
  • Karma: +20/-47
    • View Profile
Re: New Permission System Design
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2015, 12:02:38 AM »
One of the first things I do when I meet someone in the game is click on their name to bring up character details.  The below idea in a nut shell is to provide options on that character page that can add someone to a friends/enemies list or provide access to certain permissions at least for a limited time.

Click on the character, pull down permission box, selected desired permission to grant, indicate a time frame in game days for it to remain granted.

In the same general area have another pull down relations box, selected desired relation "Confidant, Friend, Nil, Enemy, Mortal Enemy" (or what ever amount of relations is suitable).  Mortal Enemies would be attacked on sight with whatever army you have.

-

"Instead of each player making a list of enemies for each character, it may be more user friendly to have an option on a characters page to make them a friend or an enemy.  Then under your own relations it could have the entire list so that you can remove them or shows that they have died or are stricken with slumberblight.

From the realm perspective down - A ruler can change the status to war, making another realm an enemy.  Sub realm rulers adjust that status if they wish:  Accept war, Openly oppose the war or Secretly oppose the war.

An individual could then have a check box next to realm relations.  To ignore realm relations (not engage), Follow relations (engage), Betray (join enemy when engaged) or even something more fun such as Protect Friends (refuse to engage friends list).

In my opinion this makes it all more personal and user friendly.  You do not go to a lists page to add people, you do it right from their character/realm details.

Another option would be to have a pull down on the character page for assigning them to a list.  For example if someone randomly shows up at your docks and needs to use them, just go to the character details click the pull down and add them to the 'use docks' list.

Sticky Lists?  Friends, Enemies, Docks, Enter?
Sticky Relations? Obey, Disobey, Betray?"

De-Legro

  • M&F Dev Team
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3048
  • Karma: +105/-54
    • View Profile
Re: New Permission System Design
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2015, 03:32:45 AM »
One of the first things I do when I meet someone in the game is click on their name to bring up character details.  The below idea in a nut shell is to provide options on that character page that can add someone to a friends/enemies list or provide access to certain permissions at least for a limited time.

Click on the character, pull down permission box, selected desired permission to grant, indicate a time frame in game days for it to remain granted.

In the same general area have another pull down relations box, selected desired relation "Confidant, Friend, Nil, Enemy, Mortal Enemy" (or what ever amount of relations is suitable).  Mortal Enemies would be attacked on sight with whatever army you have.

-

"Instead of each player making a list of enemies for each character, it may be more user friendly to have an option on a characters page to make them a friend or an enemy.  Then under your own relations it could have the entire list so that you can remove them or shows that they have died or are stricken with slumberblight.

From the realm perspective down - A ruler can change the status to war, making another realm an enemy.  Sub realm rulers adjust that status if they wish:  Accept war, Openly oppose the war or Secretly oppose the war.

An individual could then have a check box next to realm relations.  To ignore realm relations (not engage), Follow relations (engage), Betray (join enemy when engaged) or even something more fun such as Protect Friends (refuse to engage friends list).

In my opinion this makes it all more personal and user friendly.  You do not go to a lists page to add people, you do it right from their character/realm details.

Another option would be to have a pull down on the character page for assigning them to a list.  For example if someone randomly shows up at your docks and needs to use them, just go to the character details click the pull down and add them to the 'use docks' list.

Sticky Lists?  Friends, Enemies, Docks, Enter?
Sticky Relations? Obey, Disobey, Betray?"


The temporary permission sounds something like the token system Tom spoke of when we first discussed changing the permission system.


I very much like the idea of marking relationships between characters. I would suggest that we also need the option to declare such relationship information public or private. If set to public perhaps the relationship could be added as a special case to the gossip section of the character page.


 In terms of list being per character or not, I would suggest something like the current permission system. For my characters I generally make a "realm" permission list, and then each settlement has its own list that inherits the realm list. Going down this path would let your individual families (or however you separate characters among the realms you play in) to have a base list appropriate to that group, and then to make additions based on the individual interactions of each character.
He who was once known as Blackfyre

Weaver

  • Guest
Re: New Permission System Design
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2015, 03:53:20 PM »
If I may make one suggestion: It would be extremely helpful if we could control who can edit public lists. Until this is done, I find it very difficult to justify a public list if anyone can edit it.


Also, would it be possible to address the recipient of a message to a list? It would be tremendously helpful- added with the ability to control who can edit public lists, to send messages to certain people without going through a large list of members or people you know- I think it would be useful to realms of all sizes.

Andrew

  • Game Master / Lead Developer
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1707
  • Karma: +73/-7
  • Mildly Amused
    • View Profile
    • Lemuria Community Fan Site
Re: New Permission System Design
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2015, 04:45:57 PM »
Unless I'm mistaken Public Lists aren't implemented yet, and the creator controls it, it's just available to others to use.

As for messages to lists, easily abused. I could quite quickly spam EVERY realm in the game. They're actually supposed to have permission systems of their own in their final implementation.
Standing for the creation of interesting things since Year 1, Week 5, Day 4.
Favorite cold beverage: Strawberry Shake
My hobbies: Fixing computers, video games, anime, manga, some other stuff, sleep (in no particular order)

Weaver

  • Guest
Re: New Permission System Design
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2015, 05:07:10 PM »
Ah I see. That's very helpful. The manual mentioned it so I thought it was implemented.

Ratharing

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 505
  • Karma: +25/-12
    • View Profile
Re: New Permission System Design
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2015, 09:36:39 PM »
I have noted that giving permission to resupply and leaving the field blank means they get to resupply ZERO hours, instead of infinite.

It would be more intuitive for it to mean unlimited supply rights, such as a blank check. Any chance of changing that?

Tom

  • Head Developer
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6325
  • Karma: +102/-15
    • View Profile
    • Might & Fealty
Re: New Permission System Design
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2015, 07:45:08 AM »
No, because default values should be safe values.

That and this topic is about changes to the system which would change this anyways.

Ehndras

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: +9/-8
  • Urist Tarzath, Emperor of the Children of Armok
    • View Profile
Re: New Permission System Design
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2015, 01:35:27 PM »
If positive tokens exist, I see no reason why negative tokens shouldn't. It would help with exile, as well.


"You are hereby exiled from all lands pertaining to the realm. Your entry rights have been revoked, a bounty placed upon your h-"

Oh. Ooohh.... OOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhh.... Realm-wide quests? "Such and such is an enemy of the state, I hereby offer 50 gold to whoever brings me his head."


That reminds me... Perhaps the option to take a "token" upon killing an enemy, as proof, like they used to do in older times? I'd love to rub Asran DeadKing's ear, ring-finger, or severed head in some people's faces... ;) Helps with proving you actually killed someone, too. Especially for quests!


Hell, I'd add a frivolous mechanic where you can wear certain small bodyparts and be displayed on you for all to see. Severed ear / finger / testicle necklace, anyone? Or mounting severed heads upon pikes, to be displayed upon entering a settlement. Minor, one or two line things that would greatly expand upon the customization options and beautification of the game. Trophy room, anyone? I for one am still waiting for the level of detail we have for region descriptions & statistics like in Battlemaster... :)
Mors Principium Est - Death is only the beginning