Author Topic: North Spear  (Read 10147 times)

Tan dSerrai

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Re: North Spear
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2014, 10:01:57 AM »
@Alumaani:

My thanks for the respect, but I admit I am still quite pissed at the fact that you blatantly accuse me of 'trying for ooc advantages' and 'PR'. Then you suggest we should have shared our intentions ooc...why, this is exactly what I am trying to do, dammit. If clearly stating the intentions for the post AND giving my word that I am not angling for any OOC advantage is not enough, then bah.

'having had a war with you I know just how far you will go to win so forgive me if I occasionally suspect you of a little too much enthusiasm'

I understand this as 'I accuse Tan of using every OOC advantage he can gain so that he can WIN as this is all he cares about' - just phrased a bit nicer.

Man, if I would want to 'win' I'd have had enough opportunities to do so. What did I do after the Tor Arithgar war was won? Halt after retaking what I lost. That was all.

I will not comment on this further. Boy am I disappointed.


@Stonedman:
'The same old North Spear that always was at war with Tor Arithgar':

- First instance: Alumaani take two (abandoned) North Spear settlements, I retake them. LARGE hubbub ensues.
- Second instance: Tor Arithgar attacks North Spear, with the intent to 'cut them down to size'. Tor Arithgar is decisively defeated, yet looses not one single estate in the defeat.
- Third instance: Valinor wants to take over the (largely inactive) reach. Stonedman objects, a (limited) war is fought that the Stoned Lands win
- Fourth instance: I start a small raid against 4 of Stoned Lands settlements, announce it, limit my troops to one eigth of my forces. My raid is defeated.


That is the full history of all wars before this one. Not exactly 'North Spear persecuting and subjugating the western clans.'



So...tell me, who is 'angling for ooc advantage'? Who is 'doing PR'?


Again, think of North Spear as 'evil', think of them as 'aggressors' if you want - in part you are RIGHT. We ARE attacking. With me so far? That is what we as players think is _good for the game_. We may be right, we may be wrong, but at least we are trying to do _something_.


So aye, it is disappointing, disheartening and even trying to explain did not work at all, did result in ooc accusations - and the irony is that one the one hand I am accused of 'PR propanganda' while on the very next post exactly that propaganda is sprouted - just coming from the other side.

End of story, feel free to continue to discuss, but I would ask that the discussion is kept somewhat constructive. I for my part will avoid this thread like a plague for the next week or so.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 10:14:31 AM by Tan dSerrai »

Stonedman

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Re: North Spear
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2014, 12:42:34 PM »
 My only point there was that ever since the start the North has been split into two camps. East V West. And the conflicts have always been between these two camps, always with the same people on the same sides J

Now this is again essentially the same original groups fighting for power.
So understandably given the history, the West was never going going to lay down and accept our “old enemies” demands for supremacy, which is what you were asking by making us a subjugated clan “under” the control and command of our old enemies, paying tribute, having no power, and bowing before you J

If this attempt to unify the North came through a different set of clans operating together, not related to all the previous conflicts, then the “feelings” around it may not be the same.

i.e if it was Moorkhanni, Northmaani and Valinor asking us to join them in a united region, it may have been reacted too very differently, as they would not have been acting as “North Spear”, would not have been related to the “old” alliance system.

Come what may though, this has injected a very large dose of activity / Interest in the game, and not just in the north.
My account for example was due to expire in 2 days time, but I am now re-activating it for a further month to fight this war.
Whether it gets re-activated again after this is yet to be seen.

And I would not say that the War in the reach was “limited” my entire force was committed to that war, and lost probably 50% of my troops J

Valast

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Re: North Spear
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2014, 05:16:54 PM »
And I would not say that the War in the reach was “limited” my entire force was committed to that war, and lost probably 50% of my troops J

Well, it was limited in scope.  You and I did talk about that from the start... that we would keep it within the reach lands... and we did have rather well set ideas on what would end the war, on top of that we had good communication (mostly) through out.  I think you and I did a good job of having a war that was limited in scope (to not spiral out to other nations/allies), limited in duration, and resulted in both sides walking away neither satisfied or dissatisfied.

I think when he says limited, he means in line with the limited war idea to prevent all out destruction wars.

Stonedman

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Re: North Spear
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2014, 06:47:38 PM »
perhaps i misunderstood the intent, I read "limited" as being minor and not really worth mentioning.
while to me it was an extremely costly war, in which I lost many of my best troops :)

Although it may have been far less costly if it was not for the coincidental attack from D'serrai in the South West. (which involved around 800-1000 D'serrai troops, so not really "minor" either, although i do understand that 1000 is only a fraction of what Clan D'serrai can field in a conflict)

One thing this new war will not be is "limited" by any understanding of the word.
Should be interesting.

[/size]

stueblahblah

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Re: North Spear
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2014, 08:07:00 PM »


Anyway, one way or another, the North will no longer be the military force it currently is.
Many thousands of troops will be killed, and the last 6 ish months of effort wiped out.

... and will be replaced by new ones ready to fight ;) if just few largest cities remain intact, that will be something.
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De-Legro

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Re: North Spear
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2014, 02:43:47 AM »
The larger the power bloc, the greater the fear, hate whatever, both IC and OOC. People will always accuse you of the same motives and ambitions they have or would have, and internal politics are hard to see from outside. Take the Grand Fate, we can barely organise a simple militiary campaign between our sub realms, but anyone outside of the islands is unlikely to realise how divided we are, or how suspicious several groups are of each other. That is why I generally oppose adding new member states in game, I have no desire to deal with the consequences of being a large power bloc.
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Alumaani

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Re: North Spear
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2014, 09:06:11 AM »
Still stand by my post, temper tantrum or not.  Im not bothered at all about this conflict, I think it will be great but I would be terribly sad to see stonedman exit, certainly if it's down to this after we have derided a lot of other players for rage quitting.  Come on old boy, chin up, helmet on!

Stonedman

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Re: North Spear
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2014, 09:26:11 AM »
if/when i leave it wont be directly due to any military factors, it will be because the game is soooooo incomplete still and sooooo non user friendly.


during the beta, even though the game was so much less "complete" than it is now, there was something about it which made it better.
Maybe it is the lack of players / population density, i don't know.


we shall see what happens.

De-Legro

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Re: North Spear
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2014, 11:37:17 AM »
Still stand by my post, temper tantrum or not.  Im not bothered at all about this conflict, I think it will be great but I would be terribly sad to see stonedman exit, certainly if it's down to this after we have derided a lot of other players for rage quitting.  Come on old boy, chin up, helmet on!

It is sad to lose anyone, let alone someone that has done so much to help make this game world what it is. I certainly hope the northern war can bring in the same sort if interest wars on the islands and in the south have, though I also hope the effect lasts longer.
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Roran Hawkins

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Re: North Spear
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2014, 12:47:06 PM »
Personally I would be much more interested in the game. Imagine the possibilities!


You are a lord over a confederation of clans of the Western Rathgari sphere, and are invaded by the Eastern confederation leader. The old conflict arises. However, this time you know for sure that you are outnumbered, and that a war will be in your enemy's favour. So, since giving in to their demands is only for Southern sissies, you fight against all odds, even if there's virtually no chance of winning. Because you are true Rathgari clansman. One with honour and pride in larger amounts than common sense, but only Southerners care about that. You fight the North Spear dogs for a while, and probably you lose after some bloody fights, knowing that whatever happened, you at least bloodied their nose or even better, kicked them in the nuts. Maybe you even win, or lose while inflicting such losses you 'win' the war? In any case, eventually the war in the North ends, a war to decide the true leader of the North. Either you have been forced to bend the knee, or you have stood victorious, and remain independant.


Regardless of the situation, the game should not be over by then. Dependant on how you fought; with all your might or only a fake conflict to save your honour, you are a very important political player in the new realm. Only a few core clans have the right to vote, and all other clans are hardly slaves compared to them. So, you start creating some havoc. You know your vassal clans still trust you more than your new overlord, so you start gnawing at the loyalty of the voiceless clans under the enemy and demand either independance or the right to vote, the ability to become the new leader of the confederation! Perhaps you get the right to vote, perhaps the entire confederation gets ripped to pieces. Considering you know that their leader wishes to see Rathgar united, he'll probbably give in eventually. Now comes only the point of getting that guy killed. Send out some assassins with a fast and highly specialized force of veteran soldiers to ambush him and kill him the moment he is unguarded. If it succeeds, a new leader is chosen, and why not you? If it fails, blame the Southerners. That always works.


Woah, I really went deep into this.
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Mookzen

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Re: North Spear
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2014, 02:34:55 PM »
Can someone give me the highlights of what happened since the war started ? Or has there not been major battle yet.

Alumaani

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Re: North Spear
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2014, 02:57:20 PM »
  • Valen attack the Reach and are defeated by Stonedman
  • North Spear attack Ard Ri Brenden Alumaani and also invade Stonedlands with approx 1000 warriors raiding and then leaving.
  • [size=78%]Ultimatum given by North Spear[/size]
  • [/size][size=78%]North Spear spotted crossing the mountains[/size]
  • [/size][size=78%]Western Rathgar mobilize warriors[/size]
  • [/size][size=78%]Thats it so far[/size]


Mookzen

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Re: North Spear
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2014, 03:04:59 PM »
Cheers, I'm going to be getting into this, time to shake things up.

Stonedman

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Re: North Spear
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2014, 07:25:05 PM »
nothing has really happened yet.


Northspear has been looking for us, and not found our forces, in the process they have started to take the best settlements in my realm.


I have been looking for Northspear, and not found them.


Sooner or later the hosts will find eachother and the Largest battle ever seen in these lands will happen.


i would NOT be surprised to see 5k+ soldiers in the first battle.
Unfortunately most wont be mine haha.


And your a bit wrong there Roran,
If i join Northspear through defeat, i will be a third rate clan, cowed in defeat and proven to be too weak to defend my lands, without honour or position or respect. With no voice and no power, bound by Northspear rules (rules which the western clans would have previously voted against in the Rathgar Thing, where we had a voice) to accept anyone attacking my lands at any time under their terms.


But, that would be the price of defeat.

Calpurnius

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Re: North Spear
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2014, 09:09:51 PM »
It has been said before, that this game is blob vs blob.  Large armies can move without leaving a trace, eating all food ( even 1000 units shipped to village ).   
It appears that is what this war is becoming.



There needs to be some factor that works against 2000 troops moving across the map unseen and eating like kings.
Food produced by peasants and stored within the fortifications should not disappear, to feed an invisible army.

They can't take weapons or armor produced, why are they allowed to take food brought to market inside village walls.