Author Topic: Soveriegnty of the Ryne  (Read 10429 times)


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Re: Soveriegnty of the Ryne
« Reply #75 on: August 27, 2015, 05:56:45 PM »
The battle system can be extended to 3, 4, ... sides. The code should handle it just fine, except for one thing:

Who is your enemy?
In a 1:1 that question is simple. With multiple sides, it becomes a lot more difficult. To scratch just the surface:

* each side of the battle would have to explicitly state somehow whom they consider targets and whom not.
* this would have to be updated by everyone each time someone creates an additional front/side.
* ...which opens the way for time-based exploits (e.g. join a 1:1 battle, but as side 3, attack only one of the others, hope they don't log in early enough to update, voila you will get no hits).

Part of this problem can be solved by simply making the design decision that everyone is always fighting everyone else. If you have more than one friendly side in a battle (e.g. A, B and C are fighting, and A is your enemy, but B and C are your friends) - tough luck. That might be a compromise, but it's a gamey compromise, as people would expect that if their soldiers understand that everyone from group A is a friend (you never  target your own side), then they should be able to understand that B is also friends.

So one alternative would be to make "attack everyone else" the default setting, and only if you explicitly decide to NOT attack some group, then they are not attacked.

...which all leads to the question of WHO DECIDES ? If there are six people in one group, who of them decides? There is no solution to this problem that I'm happy with. You can have one person decide - but why? That's gamey and artificial. You could have a vote, but then what happens with the people voting the other way and why is this suddenly a democracy? You could say that one person makes a proposal and everyone who doesn't join splits off into a seperate group - but then you have a problem of cascades as every new front that opens also fragments the existing ones. That might be cute on paper, but I doubt it is much fun and it makes it really difficult to understand the battle.

Which is the next problem. Imagine a battle with 6, 7 or more sides, all attacking either everyone else or a variety of others. How do you display the battle report in a way that is understandable? It would either be incredibly complex (with 7 parties to a battle, there are 7! or 5040 possible combinations of attacks going on) or it would leave out vital information.

Solve these non-trivial problems with me and we can have this. There are compromises we can make, for example limiting it to three sides, all attacking each other, but they are unsatisfactory.


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Re: Soveriegnty of the Ryne
« Reply #76 on: August 27, 2015, 06:07:35 PM »
Keep it to "If they aren't with me, they're against me." If we need to have other allegiances, we can have more battles to sort it out afterwards. At least until the game gets more popular and there are resources to invest in a more dynamic solution.

As for the battle report, I understand why we know how the enemy does right now, but with more than two sides, would it even be reasonable to know what your enemies are up to, beyond maybe who they capture? I'd say just remove the enemy's column(s) for 3+ side battles--or all of them since that would be easier to code, change the capture/wound/kill information to be non-column specific for each phase ("Bob was killed by Jane from Side A", "Smith captured Bob from Side D"). First Ones would only care about First Ones outside of their own soldier count anyways.

As for who is on what side, we could move that to the top of the list, with a summary of each side and who's on it before the battle report itself.
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Re: Soveriegnty of the Ryne
« Reply #77 on: August 27, 2015, 08:10:50 PM »
What I saw in my head when first reading this was something simple.  You can join the battle on one side or you can join the battle on no side.  That is the choice.  Pick a side A, B or choose option C which is enter the fight on your own.

Others can then join you, or enter the fight on their own... up to the maximum allowed by the code (or as RP'ed...maximum allowed due to the available space for battle preparation.).  When that space is full it should tell nobles joining that there is no more room to prepare their own attack, but they can still join others.

Who is your enemy / Targeting / who decides: If you do not join the battle on the established sides, you ARE against EVERYONE else on the sides you did not choose.  If you do not want to attack allies, then join them in the battle.  So just as you said, "Tough Luck" if you have two allies fighting...make the tough call and pick one or stand aside and do not fight in the battle.

Life is full of nonlinear choices.  This game is FULL of those same choices, it should have the same real world hard choice in battle too.  (the game SHOULD however indicate who the allies are or are not without having to look it up.  That is tedious and will be ignored.  Just give an * on the ones who are diplomatically tied to your realm and make the player look up that diplomacy level to make the choice in the battle.

Real world if I pick up a stick, only I have the choice who to use it on.

Battle report: This one is more cumbersome.  The game could create two reports.  One that is just the contact your own army had and with who, including a summery of Noble fates.  The other report showing all the details of the entire battle...but requires a certain entourage member to be there on your side, or maybe a combination of entourage members unlocks it, or maybe it is a bloodline trait (certain combination of traits that unlock this).  Otherwise you have to get additional battle reports from others involved to see what happened.