Author Topic: But out Rathgar  (Read 28274 times)

Andrew

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2014, 01:19:16 PM »
@Velrun:

There is still no suggestion on what to do in the current situation....and forgive me, but sending 10% of my forces to a realm that did seem to not have suffered any internal warfare, is one year old, was _asking_ for more action both qualifies as 'laying low' and 'content creation'. I am truly and honestly very negatively surprised at this reaction.

I've always found this weird, but of the realms I was in at the beginning (and I had characters in all three GS realms) the Fading Isles was probably the most internally argumentative about things. The power alignment between the King and his subordinate Dukes and Counts has always been an interesting topic, though things got quiet as the main powers went behind closed doors and discussed.

Honestly, it was probably just bad timing. From the outside, you didn't see our bickering or our arguments. All you saw was a realm that wasn't doing much. Then, moments before you arrived everything came to a boil and the realm you thought so quiet shattered. Suddenly the maps were being redrawn daily, and the lines always shifting. At that point though, you were already there, so why stop now? Right?
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feyeleanor

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2014, 01:21:29 PM »
This is also true - not specifically of Rathgar, but of anyone. So how can we create more interaction?

There are many gamey ways of forcing it - like forcing that you deliver a declaration of war before you can attack a settlement - but that doesn't quite cut it. It would prevent raids and real, intentionally unannounced attacks.

Maybe we could enforce interaction when someone takes control of a settlement? It could be easy, like the creation of a conversation between taker and owner (and everyone opposing or supporting auto-joining it). That way, even if the attacker doesn't speak up, the defender can initiate the interaction. Would that help?


That would certainly be interesting.


I think takeover's should take substantially longer for OOC reasons: as a working mother I find the BM cycle of 3-5 days much easier to work with, and that's despite working at home to my own schedule. Having a game where two days missed could result in your whole position being lost is a great way to make M&F for hardcore fanboys only.

Tom

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2014, 01:32:04 PM »
Note that I had no idea of the Alumaani raiding - so there IS no coordination. Also note that I am not raiding FI due to the FI raid against the Northmanni. I am raiding the FI because I do not want to raid EI, Ascalon or any newer realms. I thought that FI would be able to stomach being _temporarily_ raided by a force consisting of less than 10% not of my clan but of my own troops.

Did you being with a roleplay that let people know that this is a short raid and not an invasion? Something perfectly IC along the lines of "we laught at you weaklings, we will take your wine and your women and then go back home to celebrate and be declared heroes, see if you can stop us!".

De-Legro

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2014, 01:36:00 PM »

That would certainly be interesting.


I think takeover's should take substantially longer for OOC reasons: as a working mother I find the BM cycle of 3-5 days much easier to work with, and that's despite working at home to my own schedule. Having a game where two days missed could result in your whole position being lost is a great way to make M&F for hardcore fanboys only.


Takeovers are long if troops are present. The real problem is having enough militia and defence to make that count, otherwise they just attack the troops and cut down the TO time. I am hoping that the now that soldiers require food this will be more doable. Militia correctly proportioned to the size of the settlement should mean that a relative force needs to be used, least they risk starvation.
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Tom

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2014, 01:57:05 PM »
@Tom: of my clan, less than 10% are involved in the raid in FI. The rest is balefully staring across the borders within Ratghar. I think this qualifies as 'primarily absored in internal conflict'. We are also holding a Thing right now, which disallows active warfare during its duration.

So UN all over again. I hope there's at least one clan at the Thing who plans to ambush all the ambassadors just to show them how disgusting, soft and southernish they think all this stupid talk thing is.

No, looking at each other sternly I don't count as conflict.

Let's leave it at that, it's not moving us forward.

De-Legro

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2014, 02:04:05 PM »
Hah no wonder poor Ironwood is having such food issues, 149 entourage on a character with 18 men?
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Tom

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2014, 02:09:29 PM »
but sending 10% of my forces to a realm that did seem to not have suffered any internal warfare, is one year old, was _asking_ for more action both qualifies as 'laying low' and 'content creation'. I am truly and honestly very negatively surprised at this reaction.

Maybe that reaction should tell you something. You are absolutely correct on the facts, no doubt. FI, even divided now as it is, can certainly handle that raider group.

So why the reaction? Because the perception of people is different. So far, with the two raids into EI, the expectation of everyone in the game pretty much is that if you spot Rathgar invaders, there's a 2k army from half a dozen clans close behind.


What can we do? I'm not sure. I think actions speak louder than words. You could run a bunch of really small raids - I mean 3-5 people with a total of less than 200 soldiers - into a dozen realms, including the newbie ones you don't want to hurt. And most importantly: No major invasions at the same time. Let people see and experience that a raider group doesn't mean all of Rathgar is gangbanging them.

Tom

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2014, 02:10:42 PM »
Apparently Tom has declared war on me for that, would be nice if diplomatic relations messaged the recipient at all.

They don't due to the spam potential - I could declare war-peace-war-peace with a script 500 times in an hour and flood your messages. As soon as I figured out how to prevent that, I'll add it.


De-Legro

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2014, 02:11:40 PM »
They don't due to the spam potential - I could declare war-peace-war-peace with a script 500 times in an hour and flood your messages. As soon as I figured out how to prevent that, I'll add it.


We can do the same with the basic message system right now though if we really wanted to spam people. It would be annoying but its not like we can't report it.
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Tom

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2014, 02:13:04 PM »
I think takeover's should take substantially longer

They depend a lot on your militia. If you have a solid amount of troops (not just 5 guys, but, say, 20 or so for a town of 1000) then taking control will take maybe two days real-time.

Alumaani

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2014, 02:29:27 PM »
My raiding force hasn't even landed but Aeslin Alumaani is present, he is a casualty of the Alumaanis defeat against North Spear and lost both of his brothers during the conflict, one dead, one abdicated and left.  He traveled to the isles in shame and swore fealty to Lord Andrew and was instructed to invade Prydhain which he did.  Most of those troops are FI troops which I built alone, across 2 villages in the last couple of weeks...if thats a big force, then you really aren't running your military right, but I would be happy to talk you through how I do it.


@Tom - The reason the Alumaani aren't fighting is because we just lost a shed load of warriors against Tan and they are now under equipped to attack him and only have 1 small neighbour to the north.  They have also suffered from massive starvation with almost EVERY settlement dropping drastically and warriors dying of starvation, buildings being abandoned and workforces disappearing.  Every single trade has been automatically cancelled and has needed to be re-established, so a huge amount of effort and work is being put in every day to try to cope with your implementation of food code.  You obviously don't see it but I log in every day, multiple times and have spent hours trying to juggle this, so I am very sorry if I haven't had time to jump across the border and sacrifice my remaining, half starved forces.


@ Velrun - We have laid low for a week or 2 so I am not sure what you want, do your really mean, can you please not attack me?  You are facing no more than 200 warriors I think (Mine were only 50 that I will now turn around and I didnt realise Tan was sailing also), De-Legro alone could defeat that and if you play the game intuitively and creatively then it can be really quite fun.  If it was me, I would have taken the opportunity to welcome them, point out the richest pickings (My enemy) and let them know they can re-supply in my base (They'll need somewhere as they've sailed many miles).  Lets get out of this Rathgar bashing mindset and actually engage with us as players, were actually ok if you stop complaining enough to converse.











Velrun

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2014, 02:39:46 PM »
My raiding force hasn't even landed but Aeslin Alumaani is present, he is a casualty of the Alumaanis defeat against North Spear and lost both of his brothers during the conflict, one dead, one abdicated and left.  He traveled to the isles in shame and swore fealty to Lord Andrew and was instructed to invade Prydhain which he did.  Most of those troops are FI troops which I built alone, across 2 villages in the last couple of weeks...if thats a big force, then you really aren't running your military right, but I would be happy to talk you through how I do it.


@Tom - The reason the Alumaani aren't fighting is because we just lost a shed load of warriors against Tan and they are now under equipped to attack him and only have 1 small neighbour to the north.  They have also suffered from massive starvation with almost EVERY settlement dropping drastically and warriors dying of starvation, buildings being abandoned and workforces disappearing.  Every single trade has been automatically cancelled and has needed to be re-established, so a huge amount of effort and work is being put in every day to try to cope with your implementation of food code.  You obviously don't see it but I log in every day, multiple times and have spent hours trying to juggle this, so I am very sorry if I haven't had time to jump across the border and sacrifice my remaining, half starved forces.


@ Velrun - We have laid low for a week or 2 so I am not sure what you want, do your really mean, can you please not attack me?  You are facing no more than 200 warriors I think (Mine were only 50 that I will now turn around and I didnt realise Tan was sailing also), De-Legro alone could defeat that and if you play the game intuitively and creatively then it can be really quite fun.  If it was me, I would have taken the opportunity to welcome them, point out the richest pickings (My enemy) and let them know they can re-supply in my base (They'll need somewhere as they've sailed many miles).  Lets get out of this Rathgar bashing mindset and actually engage with us as players, were actually ok if you stop complaining enough to converse.

Why would I set them upon an enemy that is already struggling to hold us back? Have you bothered to look at how many settlements Red Forest has lost? How would it help their retention to add further troops the assault. Hell De-Legro never even committed the full extent of his own forces to that war because he knew they wouldn't stand up against it. If you refer to Pyrhdain, again at the moment they are already having trouble coordinating and defending against the troops there, again what would be the point to add further pain to the conflict.

With regards to waiting a few weeks, obviously your sense of time is different to my own. Rathgar split up around the 18th of this month (Aussie Time), that is only five days ago. Perhaps you meant in game weeks.

@Velrun:

There is still no suggestion on what to do in the current situation....and forgive me, but sending 10% of my forces to a realm that did seem to not have suffered any internal warfare, is one year old, was _asking_ for more action both qualifies as 'laying low' and 'content creation'. I am truly and honestly very negatively surprised at this reaction.

So if you are going to make decisions based on OOC information on these forums, why not make some OOC inquires to those you plan to affect. Sure you raiding force would be of little concern for FI, if the whole place wasn't already turning into a battlefield. You have been told that your clan alone has more troops then all of FI, how did you think a "mere" 10% at a time where FI is not even close to its strongest wasn't going to be a significant amount.

How many times are the northern clans going to throw their hands up and make the rest of the game world find solutions for there missteps? The whole point of splitting up Rathgar was as I understood it to aid in creating some internal conflict, yet again though we have nothing but Rathgar looking outwards for targets.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 02:49:16 PM by Velrun »

feyeleanor

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2014, 03:04:16 PM »
My raiding force hasn't even landed but Aeslin Alumaani is present, he is a casualty of the Alumaanis defeat against North Spear and lost both of his brothers during the conflict, one dead, one abdicated and left.  He traveled to the isles in shame and swore fealty to Lord Andrew and was instructed to invade Prydhain which he did.  Most of those troops are FI troops which I built alone, across 2 villages in the last couple of weeks...if thats a big force, then you really aren't running your military right, but I would be happy to talk you through how I do it.


The light infantry mean nothing. It's the 88 medium infantry I'm surprised at. I'm assuming the Lord concerned didn't put up much in the way of resistance before surrendering and handing over half his army?


Pity, the light infantry I gave him would have put up a reasonable fight - at least long enough for my regular troops to have waded in for a second battle.

Tan dSerrai

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2014, 03:09:09 PM »
Maybe that reaction should tell you something. You are absolutely correct on the facts, no doubt. FI, even divided now as it is, can certainly handle that raider group.

So why the reaction? Because the perception of people is different. So far, with the two raids into EI, the expectation of everyone in the game pretty much is that if you spot Rathgar invaders, there's a 2k army from half a dozen clans close behind.


What can we do? I'm not sure. I think actions speak louder than words. You could run a bunch of really small raids - I mean 3-5 people with a total of less than 200 soldiers - into a dozen realms, including the newbie ones you don't want to hurt. And most importantly: No major invasions at the same time. Let people see and experience that a raider group doesn't mean all of Rathgar is gangbanging them.

Those are good suggestions. I will gladly do that - still, I would also ask that others work on their perception as well. If every rathgari noble results in a 'omg, there'll be 2000 1 day behind him', no matter what we do it will always result in ooc complaints.

And regarding conflict: If you only consider a massive drop in troops to be conflict, then aye, Rathgar is peaceful as a kitten right now. However, that is very emphatically not true. Also note that I would gladly ooc donate 25%-50% of my troops to other realms to aid them in catching up...but I'd rather not simply waste them in something I'd consider ooc staged fight. or not fitting to my chars ambitions. I'll also gladly declare to only send 10% or maybe 5% of my troops outside Ratghar.


Lastly: It may be necessary to give additional guidelines to Rathgar (and no, 'go fight to lose your troops or waste them in any other endeavour is not sufficient)....say 'keep 80/90/95% of your troops inside your territory, do what you want otherwise for 2 RL months. This allows some interaction while giving all other realms the security that there is no juggernaught around the corner....and if they _know_ about such a self imposed rule we might be able to keep this a bit more reasonable.

Tan dSerrai

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2014, 03:11:10 PM »
Lastly:

Still waiting for any ooc suggestion on how to have my chars act on the FI. Again, you could near freely choose what they should do, just please make it even remotely interesting. If I do not hear anything I'll simply have them leave - but I as player would be massively disgusted.