Author Topic: But out Rathgar  (Read 10659 times)

Velrun

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But out Rathgar
« on: May 23, 2014, 07:45:29 AM »
Why is it when the Fading Isles finally gets over its fear of being attacked while engaging in war and actually starts something, do we then have 6 or so ships from Rathgar show up so they can do their "rading". Thanks guys, thanks for resetting the mindset of the Isles back to complete boredom and defense. I get that you guys find it difficult to bother raiding each other or whatever, but do you really need to travel so far to interfere in other realms that are busy trying to fix their own content creation problems?

Tan dSerrai

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2014, 08:51:44 AM »
A small to medium raiding force by Rathgar landing on the Fading Isles _one year_ after the start of the game.

Do you yet know its intent? Are they out to carve a colony? Will they raid? Will they stay there? Will they move on? Have you done anything to contact them? Did you attempt to fight them? Did you attempt to negotiate, maybe draw them into your own wars?

There are so many possibilities. You can create content _with_ Rathgar even better than by staying 'alone'. The mindset of 'us against them' being the only possible is plain _wrong_. The mindset of 'This is our kingdom, noone allowed to enter or play there' is even wrong-er.

De-Legro

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2014, 09:23:06 AM »
Unexpected visitor, just hope they don't end up costing me the new player I recruited to take over those settlements.


A small to medium raiding force by Rathgar landing on the Fading Isles _one year_ after the start of the game.

Do you yet know its intent? Are they out to carve a colony? Will they raid? Will they stay there? Will they move on? Have you done anything to contact them? Did you attempt to fight them? Did you attempt to negotiate, maybe draw them into your own wars?

There are so many possibilities. You can create content _with_ Rathgar even better than by staying 'alone'. The mindset of 'us against them' being the only possible is plain _wrong_. The mindset of 'This is our kingdom, noone allowed to enter or play there' is even wrong-er.



Its not the Fading Isles, for those apparently unable to look at settlement info, Fading Isles no longer includes Hawks or Iuna. That said, no I won't be working to bring them into the conflict. Right now the conflict is a) nicely balanced and b) the idea of approaching a group that just shows up and starts attacking settlements to go fight my wars is a little odd to me. Had they not landed in territory that unfortunately is abandoned then perhaps there would have been someone there to fight them, unlikely though since Hawks is currently engaged in three separate conflicts.


Velrun has a point though. FI has been crippled for the longest time in doing anything interesting, out of the fear old time BM players tend to have that if they start a conflict the first thing that happens is that unassociated parties will jump on it. I'm sure you can understand why to some the current situation would look to match that fear.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 09:30:29 AM by De-Legro »
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Velrun

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2014, 09:40:50 AM »
A small to medium raiding force by Rathgar landing on the Fading Isles _one year_ after the start of the game.

Do you yet know its intent? Are they out to carve a colony? Will they raid? Will they stay there? Will they move on? Have you done anything to contact them? Did you attempt to fight them? Did you attempt to negotiate, maybe draw them into your own wars?

There are so many possibilities. You can create content _with_ Rathgar even better than by staying 'alone'. The mindset of 'us against them' being the only possible is plain _wrong_. The mindset of 'This is our kingdom, noone allowed to enter or play there' is even wrong-er.

When will you players in Rathgar grasp basic psychology. When you act in this manner without preamble, when the first interaction someone has is finding out settlements are being attacked, that doesn't encourage content creation. All that does is encourage people who are busily involved in other things to say, screw it why bother. Its not about other people interacting with the island Kingdoms, its about the way Rathgar is hell bent on going about it. The wars here were a long time coming, with plenty of chances for everyone to voice disputes, for lines to be drawn etc. I could create content with Rathgar, we have been busy creating content with most the coastal mainland realms. Whether it would be defined as better is largely subjective, certainly none of what you outline holds any particular interest to me, it has no background for my character to be attached to at all.

Alumaani

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2014, 09:41:18 AM »
What a surprise!  That old anti Rathgar thing again eh?  'Hope I Dont lose my new player because Rathgar is here!' well ill tell you what, posting that crap will more than guarantee you put the fear of god into them and actually scare them off yourself.  Round of applause for the anti Rathgar team!  YEAH!  It's good to see you guys really putting the community effort in.


Let me just get this straight...FI players post they have over 300 HI and many others have a few hundred troops with a lot of that medium (A force large enough to take on Rathgar in MO as I have seen the power of HI and most of Rathgar is light to medium troops), you sail to Rathgar and raid the coast, rathgar ships...only a couple mind...decide it might be fun to return the favour and once again this crap gets posted on the forum!


I can honestly say that it makes me feel sick.

De-Legro

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2014, 09:49:39 AM »
What a surprise!  That old anti Rathgar thing again eh?  'Hope I Dont lose my new player because Rathgar is here!' well ill tell you what, posting that crap will more than guarantee you put the fear of god into them and actually scare them off yourself.  Round of applause for the anti Rathgar team!  YEAH!  It's good to see you guys really putting the community effort in.


Let me just get this straight...FI players post they have over 300 HI and many others have a few hundred troops with a lot of that medium (A force large enough to take on Rathgar in MO as I have seen the power of HI and most of Rathgar is light to medium troops), you sail to Rathgar and raid the coast, rathgar ships...only a couple mind...decide it might be fun to return the favour and once again this crap gets posted on the forum!


I can honestly say that it makes me feel sick.


Since he is not active on the forums, I somehow doubt that. He is brand new, promised land and the first thing he see's is the land he thinks he is getting being raided. Perhaps he will stick around to see how things will turn out, perhaps not. All I can do is message him and tell him to stick around.


 I never sailed to any coast of Rathgar, nor did any of my vassals so far as I am aware. You are quite active on the forums so you no doubt know that I lost significant forces with the starvation code going active, and fighting several other conflicts has reduced what remains somewhat, but I doubt I shall, I'm spending enough time on line trying to move my characters on the battle fronts I am already engaged in, I doubt I can make the time to fight on another one, but perhaps someone else in the realm will.



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Velrun

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2014, 09:50:20 AM »
What a surprise!  That old anti Rathgar thing again eh?  'Hope I Dont lose my new player because Rathgar is here!' well ill tell you what, posting that crap will more than guarantee you put the fear of god into them and actually scare them off yourself.  Round of applause for the anti Rathgar team!  YEAH!  It's good to see you guys really putting the community effort in.


Let me just get this straight...FI players post they have over 300 HI and many others have a few hundred troops with a lot of that medium (A force large enough to take on Rathgar in MO as I have seen the power of HI and most of Rathgar is light to medium troops), you sail to Rathgar and raid the coast, rathgar ships...only a couple mind...decide it might be fun to return the favour and once again this crap gets posted on the forum!


I can honestly say that it makes me feel sick.

Are you seriously suggesting they attack on Hawks is based on statements made on the forums?

Tan dSerrai

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2014, 09:50:41 AM »
Fading Isle: I am using this for the geographic area, not the political entity. I am well aware of there being different political entities there, thank you.

Then by damn _contact_ the parties. Offer them something, include an ooc notice explaining why and what. You could probably tell them 'we are fighting a sacred war, and would appeal to you as warriors to let this be fought.' You could offer a token tribute. You could do a whole lot of things.

How on earth are we as players of Ratghar to _know_ what is considered 'ok' - and what not?!? Stating here on the forum 'butt out' is _not_ cooperative playing at all. How long have the players of FI known about Rathgar? Has known about the military might? Has _anyone_ bothered to send an emissary there?

I am starting to get _really_ annoyed at the expectation that Rathgar has to 'know' about the situation all over M&F, has to respect each and every wish of the players - without them even bothering to inform any of us either ingame or ooc. In any realworld situation I would expect emissaries to trip over each other, eagerly trying to get these pesky northmen to 'leave us alone'.

Again, there are many possibilities there - if they do not mesh completely with current plans, then so what? You will never be able to expect all your plans to work in a sandbox.


IF there is an ooc-gamethreatening situation developing THEN INFORM US, CALMLY, GIVE REASONS - and offer a suggestion on how to proceed. I am more than happy to comply.

I am NOT happy at the very first twitch being 'Butt out' followed by 'those unable to look up info' followed by 'we are doing something interesting, you do not know about it, leave us alone' without ANY constructive suggestion either OOC or IC.

So: what would any player of the FI (geographical) suggest? I am listening.

Tan dSerrai

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2014, 10:06:23 AM »
PS: Alumaani - your view is documented, however, since you are not part of this raid I would ask a favor: do not give input to this thread.

I will try to get something constructive out of this - thus, FI players, PLEASE offer suggestions.

Velrun

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2014, 10:09:27 AM »
Fading Isle: I am using this for the geographic area, not the political entity. I am well aware of there being different political entities there, thank you.

Then by damn _contact_ the parties. Offer them something, include an ooc notice explaining why and what. You could probably tell them 'we are fighting a sacred war, and would appeal to you as warriors to let this be fought.' You could offer a token tribute. You could do a whole lot of things.

How on earth are we as players of Ratghar to _know_ what is considered 'ok' - and what not?!? Stating here on the forum 'butt out' is _not_ cooperative playing at all. How long have the players of FI known about Rathgar? Has known about the military might? Has _anyone_ bothered to send an emissary there?

I am starting to get _really_ annoyed at the expectation that Rathgar has to 'know' about the situation all over M&F, has to respect each and every wish of the players - without them even bothering to inform any of us either ingame or ooc. In any realworld situation I would expect emissaries to trip over each other, eagerly trying to get these pesky northmen to 'leave us alone'.

Again, there are many possibilities there - if they do not mesh completely with current plans, then so what? You will never be able to expect all your plans to work in a sandbox.


IF there is an ooc-gamethreatening situation developing THEN INFORM US, CALMLY, GIVE REASONS - and offer a suggestion on how to proceed. I am more than happy to comply.

I am NOT happy at the very first twitch being 'Butt out' followed by 'those unable to look up info' followed by 'we are doing something interesting, you do not know about it, leave us alone' without ANY constructive suggestion either OOC or IC.

So: what would any player of the FI (geographical) suggest? I am listening.

What effort did you make to learn of the situation before jumping in? How many times is Rathgar going to exclaim "we didn't know the situation" before attempting to actually learn it? What we know about Rathgar is all OOC from the forums, as is most of our knowledge about your strength. I don't see how it is appropriate to go acting on that knowledge to try and set up insurance policies against them. I couldn't really care less about if you are happy with my thread or not. It's rage thread, thus made in rage and unlikely made considering others all that much.

De-Legro

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2014, 10:15:39 AM »
PS: Alumaani - your view is documented, however, since you are not part of this raid I would ask a favor: do not give input to this thread.

I will try to get something constructive out of this - thus, FI players, PLEASE offer suggestions.


It is what it is. Contact was made with one of my characters, If I have time I will try and make something of it, but coming into the weekend time is not something I have a heap of.
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Alumaani

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2014, 10:26:32 AM »



@Tan - I am already on the isles and raiding with a small force so it does involve me mate and whats more I am sick of listening to this negativity.
@Velrun - I haven't a clue what your talking about but FI players landed on our shores and took settlements, my clan sent 50 warriors to plunder some of your coastal villages in response. We can't go south because EI are too weak and Tom threatened to castrate us, we now can't go west because we are spoiling your fun?


What are we saying here?  That Rathgar should sit in a bubble and stay out of world affairs?  Just fight each other until the rest of the world is large enough to defeat them?  I am truly at a loss here but I am at the point of throwing my own dolls out of the pram, believe me.




Tan dSerrai

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2014, 10:29:11 AM »
Velrun,

Why must Rathgar gain information, then judge 'does this mesh with all other players intentions?' (for a small raid) WHILE other players expect to not have to exert _any_ effort in that area?

Note that I agree that players of Rathgar should act responsible, using ooc knowledge to try and not simply stomp everyone else. However, a small raid, of which neither the reasons, nor its extent, nor its plans are known to you is NOT reason enough to go and request ooc 'Rathgar must leave'.

Yes, you only know about Rathgar ooc....and use this as argument towards 'we could not contact Rathgar'. However, at the same time you expect Rathgar to know about you, your intentions, the situation - and making decisions based on that AND are not happy about the decisions taken.


All:
The gameworld is now one year old - there has been more than enough time to contact Ratghar, ESPECIALLY if one could expect rumors of that land and its power to reach the FI.


Again: Inform me here or IC, I am happy to _create content_. Suggest whatever you think fits the situation IC, suggest here whatever would make this fun for you - and us. I will gladly play jointly with you.


Alumaani

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2014, 10:36:54 AM »
Exactly Tan, whats upsetting me is exactly what we discussed in a previous topic, there is absolutely no trust for experienced players in Rathgar to manage their own game and its relationship with others.  Why is it that we are consistently attacked on the forums?  The point is made again by Velrun himself when he states all he knows of Rathgar is what is posted here and even De-Legro on the Dev team is jumping in with subliminal suggestion that his new players will leave because we steal 50 gold from their coastal villages!


I just don't get it.


I have images in my mind of the monks in Lindisfarne as the vikings landed on their shore, flipping open their great tomes and writing in them...'Its so unfair, just but out!  They didnt even check our political situation or take into consideration the local warfare before coming!'  throwing down that tome and sitting in a corner of the Abbey sucking their thumbs.

De-Legro

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Re: But out Rathgar
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2014, 11:05:09 AM »
Exactly Tan, whats upsetting me is exactly what we discussed in a previous topic, there is absolutely no trust for experienced players in Rathgar to manage their own game and its relationship with others.  Why is it that we are consistently attacked on the forums?  The point is made again by Velrun himself when he states all he knows of Rathgar is what is posted here and even De-Legro on the Dev team is jumping in with subliminal suggestion that his new players will leave because we steal 50 gold from their coastal villages!


I just don't get it.


I have images in my mind of the monks in Lindisfarne as the vikings landed on their shore, flipping open their great tomes and writing in them...'Its so unfair, just but out!  They didnt even check our political situation or take into consideration the local warfare before coming!'  throwing down that tome and sitting in a corner of the Abbey sucking their thumbs.

Yes I will probably lose a player. In this instance that is just how things go. The player OOC expressed to me how he hates most strategy games becuase attacks are generally surprise events. He was looking forward to a game where conflict was the end result of politics. Just bad luck that the first conflict he personally will be involved in didn't arise from that. That is no ones fault, just one of those realities that happen.

I do feel kind of silly for trading troops for food trades so recently though. Wonder if they would notice if I recalled them.
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