Author Topic: Origin story  (Read 2091 times)

jomala

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Origin story
« on: March 03, 2014, 02:22:07 PM »
This has been discussed before, but the player of Marcus Erhart [c:15] and I have very different views on how the colonization happened. This may not be an EI-only question, but I thought I'd start here.

I don't think I'm misquoting him to say that he sees the allocation of duchies and counties that we've done as completely OOC, and simply a short cut. I believe that he thinks that the history should be of estates coalescing into counties, then duchies, then a kingdom (which is probably what happened in the old world).

However my impression was that we are a wave of immigrants from the old world, and therefore arrived with some sense of order and hierarchy in place. In particular, the regent was established before or shortly after landing, and he and the Dukes/Duchesses directed how the counties should be formed and should spread (just as I am now guiding my knights to new settlements).

Do we have a canonical or de facto answer to what we should be RPing?
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jomala

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Re: Origin story
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2014, 02:23:42 PM »
Note that I think http://forum.mightandfealty.com/index.php/topic,1229.0.html supports my argument!
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Finton

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Re: Origin story
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2014, 03:02:54 PM »
I've played on the basis of a pre-planned migration and structure from the stagnant "old world". I don't go into details because I don't want to. Considering its been touched on a few times already in game, I suspect its not a minority position. I'm not sure that what Marcus said IC contests that though. He said we all choose where we started. Even the last of the Guided Starters had some small option as far as I'm aware. Matt should be able to confirm.

Right, so the consternation is really over Lionman's inactivity long before his uni was due to restart. I'm hardly alone in feeling a bit let down there. And if it hasn't restarted, it will soon, which is meant to hurt his activity levels even more supposedly. Personally, I'd love to see him make some kind of regular appearance, but if he doesn't I'm guessing the remainder of the Duchy is just going to have to have a good old rebellion, not just claiming the title of Duke, but also seizing some or all of his lands. Until then, I'm not disagreeing with Marcus in or out of game on the main point.

Of course, this leads to another question. If Lionman is truly not playing, then how do we go about getting the leadership position of Erstes Imperium? He can't abdicate if he doesn't log in. Its not as though we could protest him out of office. Would we have to kill James?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 03:05:45 PM by Finton »

Tan dSerrai

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Re: Origin story
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2014, 03:21:29 PM »
If Lionman is unable to abdicate - and as long as there is (yet) no possibility to remove him from office/protest him out of office then you could do the following:

Have one duchy change itself to 'Empire'; Have its ruler create a subrealm which contains all lands of the duchy and give it the name of the (previous) duchy (yes, one character can be ruler of a realm and of a subrealm of that realm at the same time); then have all other duchies join the new empire.

Its not very elegant but would offer quite a bit of RP options...rebellion! Dissatisfaction! Secession!

Tom

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Re: Origin story
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2014, 03:44:29 PM »
If Lionman is unable to abdicate - and as long as there is (yet) no possibility to remove him from office/protest him out of office then you could do the following:

I'm willing to do this manually if I can't get the election code working quickly enough.

Cynic

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Re: Origin story
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2014, 03:50:33 PM »
I don't think that it is in line with any type of medieval culture to have a boat-load of immigrants all parcelled up and ordered off to particular towns to rule them. Romans may have done, but medieval Europe was far more individualistic.


My intuitive understanding was something along these lines:

Expedition, lots of volunteers who pay or buy boats to go with, or are invited on. Probably a leader or head or group basically running the show.

People probably do their own thing within the expedition. There may be different factions, people who decide to split off and go a different way, but ultimately it stays together because broadly speaking there is a common goal and some level of common background.

Landing happens, people take their stuff and go their own way. Find appropriate land nearby and settle it.  Keep in contact with others from expedition. Some people, perhaps the leaders of the expedition, perhaps important people from the old land, perhaps particularly charismatic people, became dukes by virtue of people swearing to them.

There may have been some level of co-operation, agreeing not to step on each others' toes, but this would be on an individual basis rather than imposed by anybody.
Common background is still in place and realm exists because there is some level of respect between people.

jomala

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Re: Origin story
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2014, 05:33:40 PM »
I've no problem with removing Lionman IC - nice RP opportunities. It'd just be nice if he could let us know an IC reason why he's been out of contact.

As for the origin of our hierarchy, it sounds like it's probably easiest if we say falls between the two views: we landed with some structure and some developed. We can argue the origins and timings of our loyalties IC. I think I'll have to stick to Torsten's line that he always knew James would be regent (even if he couldn't have known for sure) though, because James has clearly done nothing to earn his respect or loyalty since!
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Alexskr

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Re: Origin story
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2014, 04:11:27 PM »
I don't think that it is in line with any type of medieval culture to have a boat-load of immigrants all parcelled up and ordered off to particular towns to rule them. Romans may have done, but medieval Europe was far more individualistic.


My intuitive understanding was something along these lines:

Expedition, lots of volunteers who pay or buy boats to go with, or are invited on. Probably a leader or head or group basically running the show.

People probably do their own thing within the expedition. There may be different factions, people who decide to split off and go a different way, but ultimately it stays together because broadly speaking there is a common goal and some level of common background.

Landing happens, people take their stuff and go their own way. Find appropriate land nearby and settle it.  Keep in contact with others from expedition. Some people, perhaps the leaders of the expedition, perhaps important people from the old land, perhaps particularly charismatic people, became dukes by virtue of people swearing to them.

There may have been some level of co-operation, agreeing not to step on each others' toes, but this would be on an individual basis rather than imposed by anybody.
Common background is still in place and realm exists because there is some level of respect between people.

The Crusades and the Kingdom of Jerusalem could be a medieval example of nobles joining together to conquer a realm. Although of course I suspect that religion played a much smaller role in founding Erstes...

jomala

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Re: Origin story
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2014, 04:58:24 PM »
The Crusades and the Kingdom of Jerusalem could be a medieval example of nobles joining together to conquer a realm. Although of course I suspect that religion played a much smaller role in founding Erstes...

But the question is, did they land with a hierarchy in place that their holdings then reflected, or did they just have a vague sense of status and organise after they'd taking towns. I think in this case they landed as armies with most of the hierarchy agreed and allocated towns after they'd been conquered, presumably according to that hierarchy.
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Cynic

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Re: Origin story
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2014, 05:54:12 PM »
My understanding of the crusades was that they did tend to be co-operative but very fractious, and probably did assign people to positions. However there seems to have been a very coherent leadership (Pope and various senior clerics) driving it, and probably guiding/approving these actions to an extent.  We don't have anything like that in Erstes Imperium.


The only reason I can see that people might have travelled to Erstes is personal, rather than being driven to it by religion or overbearing leader (since we haven't got a pervasive religion or a culture of absolute obedience set up), and if it's personal then I don't see much appetite to be dictated to - this would require an authority that everyone defers to.


No reason there can't have been discussions or agreements, though, I think that this would have been likely.

jomala

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Re: Origin story
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2014, 06:21:51 PM »
Interestingly, on another topic that I put in "General" instead (http://forum.mightandfealty.com/index.php/topic,2368.0/topicseen.html) Rathgar players have said they are RPing waves of migrations over hundreds of years (but are only recently unified).
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