Author Topic: Following through on promises  (Read 6957 times)

Alumaani

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Re: Following through on promises
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2014, 12:14:17 AM »
And lets remember that everyone in the guided start invested money into the game but that isn't the true reason we are all here.  We are all here to fill the sandbox that Tom has created with REAL characters and life.  We are the breath for the body that is sitting in front of us and if I thought for one second that the extra 2 lands I had taken would genuinely spoil this game, I would give up every inch of the lands I occupy just to be a part of the beginning.  For the chance to create the legends that future gamers will talk about wistfully.

If 'land grabbing' really urks you, then come and have some of mine so that you can have a head start.  Its a LONG LONG race my friends and in my experience the greater the holdings the larger the target.  I enjoy that, I like the management of a number of realms, I enjoy committing 2 hours a day to this game and I LOVE the fact that I am the person who has built cities that, despite how many times they changed hands, I developed and nurtured.  In 3 years time, when these cities are held by the latest patriach, I hope to be a beggar in the street, recounting the tails of how the city began and how my family were once great, enriching the game for those players stepping into our playground.

Perception is key here and I feel that the nay sayers are viewing the game from a guided start perspective.  Most of the games I play with a fantasy setting do not engage me as a king or land holder, in fact I am usually a prisoner, beggar or lowly something or other.  The enjoyment I get from these games is levelling up and advancement, that is the REAL payback, starting from nothing and becoming someone, a power, a god.  We are setting the scene for these players, we are creating the world for them to play in, we have a responsibility to develop this world and when new players drop in I am confident that we will all provide them with an enjoyable and opportunistic environment to play in.





Cynic

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Re: Following through on promises
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2014, 12:28:17 AM »
I believe this is the point trying to be made.
All the comments I have read, are about how it affects their game play.

Yes, many people in the thread have misrepresented my point or assigned false motives (although I do think a few understand but have a different image of where the game is going)

I'll admit the maths was very back-of-a-fag-packet, but on any accurate numbers you'll probably come out somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2, the exact figure is really really not the point.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 12:37:29 AM by Cynic »

Tom

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Re: Following through on promises
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2014, 09:01:16 AM »
There's a breaking point for those that overextend. There will always be vacuums to insert yourself into.

In fact, after the GS, I would very much love for one or two players to go and try to hold (and defend) as much land for themselves as they can. Just to find out if it's possible and where the breaking point is. I have my suspicions, but I might underestimate the dedication some people put into the game.

Tan dSerrai

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Re: Following through on promises
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2014, 09:18:57 AM »
To be honest, I'd rather not see that.

It is relatively easy to control 20 settlements. Have one char per 2 settlements, set buildqueues of troops, have a few chars collect those troops. Sure, you need more time than for 8 settlements - but if you scrap roleplay completely and efficiency somewhat it is perfectly doable, even without investing hours per day.

And once someone has done that he does not _need_ to coordinate - he can 'beat' others. Since coordination is somewhat difficult right now, having a unified command over 20 settlements is a _huge_ advantage. I think someone controlling 20 settlements can beat a coalition of 4 players controlling 30 settlements, simply due to unified command.

This is the reason I am very much in favor of giving more advantages to those who cooperate: see the position (and strength and possibly their scouting range) of your (other player!) vassals, have a combat bonus for battles you fight alongside allies...and especially have efficiency of your settlements diminish the more settlements you control. Little loss for 4 settlements, noticable for 8, roughly doubling buildtimes once you control 15.

Note that the whole fealty system came into being _because_ efficient control was not to be had...near noone was able to read and write, so you control your 4 hamlets and let 2 vassals control three more each, delivering a cut to you. You risk revolt but gain more _than if you would control them yourself_ (!). Currently the only downside to controlling more settlements is _time you are willing to invest_ - and there are those who will be able to invest 3 hours per day. I'd like to play this game while investing a few minutes some days, 1 hour on others.

Tom

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Re: Following through on promises
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2014, 10:31:13 AM »
That is all true until you come under pressure. In peacetime, you can surely hold 20 settlements. But once you are being attacked, I believe a single-player realm will go down a lot quicker than one with several players.

Cynic

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Re: Following through on promises
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2014, 06:59:40 PM »
That's assuming that there is enough input required into the game.  If we're assuming that the players in the co-operative grouping log in significantly less than the dedicated player (same time in total?) then it doesn't really apply.

So for advantages to occur I think you really need to have a level of input required into the game that soaks enough of the player's time to make it impractical for one person to do the whole job, which probably comes out to at least 4 hours a day (or less, of course, if there is not much dedication on the part of the person trying to run all of the settlements).  And it only offsets against the selflessness and perfect co-ordination of the single player, so it's not necessarily pure advantage.

Tom

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Re: Following through on promises
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2014, 07:39:54 PM »
No, that doesn't work.

Raising the amount of time required will drive off the more casual players, while the fanatics WILL put it in.

Cynic

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Re: Following through on promises
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2014, 01:02:59 AM »
Agreed, which is why I think that there won't be much difficulty for a fanatic to run a large realm 'better' than a group of players.

Bubba

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Re: Following through on promises
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2014, 01:25:47 AM »

It's not an either-or scenario. It will never approach everyone with four lands fighting everyone with twelve lands. Realms will have members of varying participation levels, and they won't be persuaded to fight each other simply because someone in another realm thinks everyone with four lands should join the Great Proletarian Class Struggle.


Allies are useful. Extra men are extra men, even if led less optimally.

Valast

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Re: Following through on promises
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2014, 02:37:04 AM »
All the banter is fine and good but no one is going to believe the others until the game is in full swing... Let it go.  If you see something you do not like in the game then handle it in the game by uniting a coalition against the obviously tyrannical evil over lord.

If you can... great.  If you can not then he deserves to be as big as he can possibly get.

But you will not get a tyrannical evil over lord from the guided start.  We are all here because we want to see the game work and grow.  No one is here to ruin everyone's fun.  We all want to see player flock to the game.