Author Topic: Ongoing Statistics  (Read 53236 times)

Grayford

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Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #255 on: January 22, 2016, 09:26:47 PM »
I believe the character limits are fine as they are. We shouldn't increase the amount of characters per player hoping that will increase player retention. If anything that will just create more slumbered characters and more of the game being dominated by a few active players with larger amounts of characters. I've also noticed the more characters a player has makes them tend to not have enough time to play them all. Some characters don't interact as much as they could and turn into "zombie" characters (of course this isn't true for every player and I could be wrong, just my experience).

I do agree that retention could be effected by the slow pace and the cycles of less activity in certain situations/areas/realms. Perhaps we should focus our efforts on coming up with features players can do on their own while they wait on other players. Of course this is tricky because we don't want that to be a core part of the game because it discourages interaction and devoting resources to developing that could  be seen as a waste when compared to other features.

However, I have two suggestions that aren't new features that I think could help:

Let knight offers be accompanied by a custom message. To my knowledge, all knights are introduced by a generic, system-generated message from their new lord. Allow those who set up knight offers the ability to write their own message when they accept (not just the one advertising the offer). This way they can make that player feel more welcome specifically and maybe outline some tasks for them to do before the liege player can log on and respond.

Second, create a link to the M&F IRC channel on the front page/character page. I know people have mixed feelings about IRC but hear me out. Players seek out multiplayer games to talk and interact with other players. Having the option to log on to the chat channel buys time for interaction to happen in game. While new players are waiting around for responses and things to do in game, they can get to know other players elsewhere in the game and build connections. At the very least it gives them something to do while they wait.

Dorian

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Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #256 on: January 22, 2016, 09:49:54 PM »
My opinion is that for trial accounts the number of allowed characters is fine. For payed accounts I think it is too overblown. I think that limiting the allowed number of characters in the most expensive mode shouldn't be more than 10 characters. Considering that day has 24 hours I don't see how anyone would be able to actively play more than 10 characters. Too overblown restriction on this only creates drone characters and allows more established cliques of players to be even more powerful. The number of characters should be 4, 6, 8 and 10, while those paying more should have some other benefits to make their money worth. Being able to play 50 characters is a bad reason for someone to invest in the game, I think. It would be much cooler to offer some sort of other incentives, such as a bigger allowed number of unique items, or similar.


Reducing the character limit would probably halve the map in two, but we'd have a much more vibrant and interesting game world, increasing the retention. Quality over quantity and day of the week.

WVH

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Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #257 on: January 22, 2016, 11:29:33 PM »
BUT this comes from the idea that players want their own slice of the pie.  EVERYONE who first starts out in the game seems to want their own realm right out of the gate.  They do not want to serve under a liege and work their way up.  They want their realm and armies and they want them right away.

Of course not everyone does.  But most DO.  That is not this game.  This game was intended to have underlings who fight among themselves to become top dog and most loyal and earn the trust of the liege so they will get more from them.

So that to me is the question on the table...

Do you want more players and divide the world into smaller slices of pie so everyone can have their own...

Or do you want to build a depth to the game so that layers stack on each other from internal politics to external wars relations families...and on.

*shrug* not my game.  But I was sold into paying to play this game because of its chance for depth... not so I can rule a realm all to my self.  There are other games out there where you can do that.  This one is supposed to be different.

If you could not tell from that... my personal opinion is not try and control things through character population controls... and instead put things into the game that help support depth and intrigue.  Sorry if you don't have a couple bucks to pay and get more out of it.  I have given out credits before, maybe you should ask.




Dorian

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Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #258 on: January 22, 2016, 11:36:26 PM »
Of course the focus of the game should be layers, layers and layers. Being on top is nice, but being on top alone in a PvP game is quite sad. I think that the current number of playable characters encourages single player game style.

LGMAlpha

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Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #259 on: January 23, 2016, 01:53:40 AM »
BUT this comes from the idea that players want their own slice of the pie.  EVERYONE who first starts out in the game seems to want their own realm right out of the gate.  They do not want to serve under a liege and work their way up.  They want their realm and armies and they want them right away.



I haven't seen this so much. The issue I keep having, is on the rare occasion that my knight offers are accepted, I don't really have anything for them to do. I have a much larger chunk of land than I want to deal with because I can't find anyone to take it. Strangely enough, my character in Mercia has had much better luck with knight offers than my characters in EI.


To the rest of your post, I agree with you. So far, I don't like the combat part of the game. That isn't because of anything wrong with it, but because I'm not playing this as a war game. I could play any number of better war simulations. I play this for the character interactions and potential for meaningful politics. I view combat as an extension of that. I've been entirely unsuccessful in being able to set up a meaningful hierarchy, due in part to a lack of active players.

Ratharing

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Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #260 on: January 23, 2016, 03:15:40 AM »
BUT this comes from the idea that players want their own slice of the pie.  EVERYONE who first starts out in the game seems to want their own realm right out of the gate.  They do not want to serve under a liege and work their way up.  They want their realm and armies and they want them right away.

Of course not everyone does.  But most DO.  That is not this game.  This game was intended to have underlings who fight among themselves to become top dog and most loyal and earn the trust of the liege so they will get more from them.

So that to me is the question on the table...

Do you want more players and divide the world into smaller slices of pie so everyone can have their own...

Or do you want to build a depth to the game so that layers stack on each other from internal politics to external wars relations families...and on.

*shrug* not my game.  But I was sold into paying to play this game because of its chance for depth... not so I can rule a realm all to my self.  There are other games out there where you can do that.  This one is supposed to be different.

If you could not tell from that... my personal opinion is not try and control things through character population controls... and instead put things into the game that help support depth and intrigue.  Sorry if you don't have a couple bucks to pay and get more out of it.  I have given out credits before, maybe you should ask.

Out of my main 3 characters one (which you know better) is fiercely independent and does not accept offers of fealty, another is completely devout to his liege and seeks to serve as best as possible (emphasis in serve), while the last one is a top-of-the-chain ruler who tries to delegate as much as possible but still engaging in politics.

From what I have seen regarding your family over 90% of your characters are dedicated to your Rathgar emperor, while you've had a few couple of others elsewhere as vassals of others. That makes me think you do want your own slice of cake as well, your own realm and your own armies, and will dedicate most of your resources towards that goal.

My point? That if we the players that have several characters are not willing to be vassals ourselves then how can we preach that new players should be, and that they should not do what we do?

Some people just want to serve, from what I have seen they tend not to be overly engaged and their retention rate is low, but most people want to make their own thing: to have the means to create their own culture, religion or story. Those tend to stick if they find firstly a place to implement their ideas, and secondly people to interact with and actually make a story. If you demand that they play your own game while you do what they want to do then your retention rates will naturally suck.

My recommendation is to play in several styles, and not expect others to act in ways you won't yourself.

Stonedman

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Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #261 on: January 23, 2016, 09:10:39 AM »
My opinion is that for trial accounts the number of allowed characters is fine. For payed accounts I think it is too overblown. I think that limiting the allowed number of characters in the most expensive mode shouldn't be more than 10 characters. Considering that day has 24 hours I don't see how anyone would be able to actively play more than 10 characters. Too overblown restriction on this only creates drone characters and allows more established cliques of players to be even more powerful. The number of characters should be 4, 6, 8 and 10, while those paying more should have some other benefits to make their money worth. Being able to play 50 characters is a bad reason for someone to invest in the game, I think. It would be much cooler to offer some sort of other incentives, such as a bigger allowed number of unique items, or similar.


Reducing the character limit would probably halve the map in two, but we'd have a much more vibrant and interesting game world, increasing the retention. Quality over quantity and day of the week.


Reduce the number of Characters to 10, and i'm sorry but thats me done with M&F.
I'm not going to pay just to have 10 chars, at that level the game just doesn't offer enough. (everyone is different in what they want i know)
I cannot manage anything "meaningful" with 10 chars (some know that i really dislike the hoarding of 5-6-7-8-9-10 estates on a single character)
There is already too much land that "needs" managing, even with the group of highly active players we currently have to control probably a big chunk of the land. Sorry, but it is this group of highly active players with 50 chars, running large realms (in some cases multiple realms) that actually are the backbone of the current M&F, imagine how much of the world would be inactive/slumbering without us......


It is the Large "paying" active players who introduce stability as opposed to the small/free account players who come and go as often as the sun rises and sets.


Although ALBSOLUTELY 100% we really really need more of the smaller players.... or well more "stable" players in general.

Arx

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Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #262 on: January 23, 2016, 10:16:30 AM »
I must say, it is a bit difficult sometimes not to be bitter as a free player. My characters, all told, control nine estates. Total. Of those characters, two rule over sovereign realms. None of my characters are within a hundred miles of each other. Meanwhile, one of those realms is bordered by two realms each controlled almost exclusively by single players, with no real signs of ever bringing in other players.

It's like... I'm trying really hard to improve the game, bring in new players, and once they're brought in keep them interested, but I'm surrounded by people sitting on realms the size of mine with only one player involved. If you want to increase player count, they'll have to actually have something to do.

Dorian

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Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #263 on: January 23, 2016, 11:06:59 AM »
I have a paid basic account which allows me to play 10 characers spread across three realms. I have all of them currently active but for a large amount of time I had free slots. Four of these are doing something consistencial, while others are there to support the four, not really trying to make a difference in their respective realm, and are waiting to emerge more interesting once the four above wither away or die. And these four are taking the majority of my free time to play this game. So, bottom line, I can't actively play more than four characters and the only reason I have a paid account is because of heraldry and ability to creat a sovereign realm. Reward for paying account should be explored in that way, not allowing extra unmanagable characters.


I can't understand why you need 50 character to be able to do something 'meaningful', unless you wanna run an Empire on your own. But then again, Total War series are probably a better choice in that scenario.

Stonedman

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Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #264 on: January 23, 2016, 11:50:04 AM »
it depends what you want out of those characters or the game.


you want 1 or two characters working in 5 realms doing a little bit in each realm.


I like big families in a 2-3 realms, each family which is able to make a large contribution and meaningful military strength. To be able to defend both my land and those of allies at the same time. Something i could not to with just a handful of characters. sending 1 character in to a conflict makes little impact. being able to send 10 does.


Guarding 5-6 estates with 1 character is ineffective.
Guarding 1 estate with 1 character is effective.


As say, it all depends what you want from the game, what you want to achieve.




Dorian

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Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #265 on: January 23, 2016, 01:14:56 PM »
I agree that everyone can play this game the way they want. I just feel the retention issues would be better if for example you don't need to send 10 of your characters to war, but instead send only 1 accompanied by 9 vassals. New players tend to quit the realm if they see only one family (one player) controlling everything in a realm.


On the other hand, I am wary of giving my own armies to other players. First reason is because I already got burned twice, which resulted in a loss of around 3000 troops to slumberblight or deleted characters. The second reason is that there exists no social contract so it is a jungle out there. From what I understood players that pay can have two or more accounts, but those on trial can also have more since there are no controls. Thus, everytime a new character arrives who shows obvious signs that he has played this game before I start thinking about how he could be someones spy and what not. I give him lands but I generally keep my troops to myself. This sort of environment without any rules agreed upon brings out paranoia and is another reason for bad retention. Because everyone is just sticking to themselves.

De-Legro

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Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #266 on: January 23, 2016, 01:58:22 PM »
I agree that everyone can play this game the way they want. I just feel the retention issues would be better if for example you don't need to send 10 of your characters to war, but instead send only 1 accompanied by 9 vassals. New players tend to quit the realm if they see only one family (one player) controlling everything in a realm.


On the other hand, I am wary of giving my own armies to other players. First reason is because I already got burned twice, which resulted in a loss of around 3000 troops to slumberblight or deleted characters. The second reason is that there exists no social contract so it is a jungle out there. From what I understood players that pay can have two or more accounts, but those on trial can also have more since there are no controls. Thus, everytime a new character arrives who shows obvious signs that he has played this game before I start thinking about how he could be someones spy and what not. I give him lands but I generally keep my troops to myself. This sort of environment without any rules agreed upon brings out paranoia and is another reason for bad retention. Because everyone is just sticking to themselves.


You are entitled to one free account. That is a specific rule. You can have more then 1 paid account at this time, but that could always change.


I give away hundred of plate armoured troops to try and get knights. Few stay but I'm not going to stop. If you are spending your time playing a GAME being paranoid, why bother playing the game.
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Dorian

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Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #267 on: January 23, 2016, 02:17:29 PM »
Because a certain feeling of accomplishment is needed to successfully play a game and continue playing it. Giving someone troops to see them squandered by slumbering, deleting or defecting to the realms I am at war with doesn't make me feel like I accomplished anything.

De-Legro

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Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #268 on: January 23, 2016, 02:32:55 PM »
Because a certain feeling of accomplishment is needed to successfully play a game and continue playing it. Giving someone troops to see them squandered by slumbering, deleting or defecting to the realms I am at war with doesn't make me feel like I accomplished anything.


Yes we have all been there. Yet if you don't attract players to the realm, what will your other accomplishments end up meaning?
He who was once known as Blackfyre

Dorian

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Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #269 on: January 23, 2016, 03:11:30 PM »
Currently, luckily I am not a ruler of a realm but only play a part in a bigger scheme where there is already an existing player base. I used to import several knights per week in the past, some of them still play, but nowadays I am not trying to improve the game that actively by constantly recruiting new knights, giving them lands and chances. I just play the game without that extra OOC effort on my part to make the game better. So I am comfortable with other people doing the hard work and trying to have a small percentage of players they knighted stick around. The sense of accomplishment is there as I am a part of a group with goals, desires and flaws. I don't give away my troops anymore just to see the hard work tossed away by someone deciding to delete his characters without a word or decency to even return the soldiers or have them garrisoned somewhere so that they don't go puff. If I do give them away, these will be much smaller sizes than in the past, so the risk of me getting disappointed is smaller as well.


With my other characters I am a minor feudal Lord. The feeling of accomplishment I get is to follow my liege.