Author Topic: Ongoing Statistics  (Read 53233 times)

Ratharing

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 505
  • Karma: +25/-12
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #195 on: October 12, 2015, 10:15:33 PM »
That's strange. I have no trouble maintaining a 3k town with no issues from a very small realm. You need to be willing to keep settlements that provide food into the capital well below their "natural" population. I have two estates that would be above 1k on their own who both feed into the capital and are around 700-800 now. So I turned two towns into villages in order to raise my capital population.

Well, yours is a rather fertile land for a start. That said, how much food do they each send the capital?

Tweeznax

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 339
  • Karma: +11/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #196 on: October 12, 2015, 11:51:29 PM »
Hm... quick idea:

* Add building "slave market"
* Add entourage type "thrall"
** available from slave market
** recruited from thralls, not peasants
** if disbanded, will always settle in your current location


This or some other method of moving thralls would be VERY welcome, especially sense starving them down now often results in losing buildings. I have found thralls can be quite a nuisance, especially because it's the citizens you send off to die in wars. I had one settlement hit 70% thralls or so as a result of raising armies. The citizens regrow of course but a portion of their spots get taken by thralls.

De-Legro

  • M&F Dev Team
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3144
  • Karma: +105/-55
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #197 on: October 13, 2015, 01:58:53 AM »
I still struggle to get how you can maintain such huge settlements, i cant even really maintain my capital around 2k population without suffering elsewhere lol.


Of course you suffer elsewhere. Hawks Hold is almost 7k. The population loss from feeding it enough to get to that size likely is more in the 8-9k bracket considering we are taking food out of fertile regions thus reducing their total food production. That is the cost you pay to have a large city.
He who was once known as Blackfyre

WVH

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 299
  • Karma: +20/-47
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #198 on: October 13, 2015, 04:35:58 PM »
I admit, that eversince my character accused yours of slavery practices, my bandits have been sending their thralls to Valenshallen, the slave market of the North  ::)

ROFL, love it.  send them all up here!

I still struggle to get how you can maintain such huge settlements, i cant even really maintain my capital around 2k population without suffering elsewhere lol.

All of Valinor has suffered from growing Valenshallen, but my own settlements took the brunt of it.  Sometimes reducing from 1000+ population down to a couple hundred so that food could supply the town.  Having multiple places to train higher quality is better tactics...but you do not get to be the largest slave town that way. 

I will say there is not much incentive to make a large town.  Troop training is nice, was able to train 96 at a time for a while.  Down to 82 at a time now.

WVH

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 299
  • Karma: +20/-47
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #199 on: October 13, 2015, 04:58:09 PM »
Hm... quick idea:

* Add building "slave market"
* Add entourage type "thrall"
** available from slave market
** recruited from thralls, not peasants
** if disbanded, will always settle in your current location

Maybe the entourage type could be slaver or auctioneer?  Have it work like camp followers, each able to transport/control a number of Thralls.  You choose how many up to the max number you want them to transport.

This allows us to use them without having to feed them.  Transporting a ton of them around and having to feed them will make it a very seldom used feature.  Thrall warfare will become a problem by starving a settlement while walking around.

Tom

  • Head Developer
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6320
  • Karma: +102/-15
    • View Profile
    • Might & Fealty
Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #200 on: October 13, 2015, 10:12:58 PM »
I will say there is not much incentive to make a large town.

That's because nobody has yet dispatched a regiment of heavy cavalry. By my tests and estimates, it would slaughter almost everything in its path.

Dorian

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 219
  • Karma: +26/-11
  • Playing since 2015.
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #201 on: October 13, 2015, 10:58:32 PM »
Regular players can't test the effects of troops very precisely due to the poor feedback of the battle report. That is why nobody is bothering to experiment much with troops because no one knows whether the heavy cavalry is worth it. And of course, there is too little war in the game in general so the chance to make vague testing is low.

Roran Hawkins

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 799
  • Karma: +37/-20
  • "He whose thread shall not be flamed."
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #202 on: October 13, 2015, 11:32:53 PM »
That's because nobody has yet dispatched a regiment of heavy cavalry. By my tests and estimates, it would slaughter almost everything in its path.
I have a unit of roughly 100 heavy cavalry (broadsword-plate-horse) with an average experience of 70-90, and they, in large battles, have shown to get 1-4 kills each against a heavy infantry force. I did lose 170/250 heavy cavalry there though, as they were the only experienced troops I had on the field and were the last to rout (aka, we won, at the cost of our veteran units).


Since achieving the population requirement for warhorses is so ridiculously high and far out of reach, I can't comment on that.
The story of Ascalon's forum threads.
Founder of Ascalon, professional whiner, minor storyteller.

WVH

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 299
  • Karma: +20/-47
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #203 on: October 13, 2015, 11:37:22 PM »
That's because nobody has yet dispatched a regiment of heavy cavalry. By my tests and estimates, it would slaughter almost everything in its path.

Is there much difference between chain/horse and plate/warhorse?  Both are considered heavy cavalry.

To be honest it is too expensive to field warhorses for any battle that is not dire.  It is all I can do to hand them out to vassals anymore.  Watching the vassals go to blight, or the warhorses die in battle makes me cringe.

It takes a game year (3 rl months) in a 6500ish peasant population settlement to gain 22 warhorses.  Then training time for the warriors.  Then making sure they have plate instead of other armors (because you do not get that horse back if the rider dies...maybe future camp followers who stick around after a battle could gather lost equipment?).

The cost is so much that I do not put a warhorse under a warrior with less than 40exp anymore.  Instead, at 25-30 exp I will train a leather clad warrior into chain or plate & horse.  At 30-35 train scale to chain or plate & horse. 40+ can be trained into plate & warhorse.

My hope is that when I do field that regiment of heavy cavalry warhorses, having them all at 40 - 100+ exp will make them hold up in battle better.

Sadly you can hire a mercenary unit that has heavy armor and warhorses for much cheaper than training your own only because of the amount of time it takes to make them.

Anyway, yes it would be interesting to see what all the heavy cavalry in Valinor could do in a battle.  But I sure am not willing to test it out lol.

p.s. I am attempting the same exp/armor promotion system to train a battalion of blades...sword/heavy/short sword and aggressive archers... Longbow/heavy/short sword each with 25+ exp.

Still not sure what having a full army of experienced warriors will do.

WVH

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 299
  • Karma: +20/-47
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #204 on: October 13, 2015, 11:44:19 PM »
I have a unit of roughly 100 heavy cavalry (broadsword-plate-horse) with an average experience of 70-90, and they, in large battles, have shown to get 1-4 kills each against a heavy infantry force. I did lose 170/250 heavy cavalry there though, as they were the only experienced troops I had on the field and were the last to rout (aka, we won, at the cost of our veteran units).


Since achieving the population requirement for warhorses is so ridiculously high and far out of reach, I can't comment on that.

I noticed in year two or three that having a small force (5 to 10) of highly experienced (100+) warriors resulted in them not running away.  The dumbass's stuck around until it was only Me, them and the enemy noble.  The enemy noble of course slaughtered them.  I won the battle but the cost was not worth it.

Which is what made me wonder if an entire unit would do well.  But sounds like from your efforts, it is still very costly because high experience troops don't run!

I disagree that this is how it should be.  Instead, the unit should have knowledge on how to retreat without loosing equipment and also to retreat at a unit still inflicting damage on the enemy.

Basically with experience I expect my warriors to tactically retreat instead of being routed.

Stonedman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 679
  • Karma: +19/-65
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #205 on: October 14, 2015, 12:04:38 AM »
yeah, i noticed that warriors with 100+ exp seem to have a higher rate of dying that the much more common 0-20 exp warrior. Maybe it is because they don't retreat. I'd agree that i would like to see those warriors "knowing" when to retreat to fight another day, rather than just fight to the bitter end.


I lost a LOT of very experienced troops in recent wars, i only have a handful of troops left at 100+ experience.
I think maybe time to start training them on slumbered nobles again, i see that going on and I think i need to get back to doing that, i quit a couple of game years ago, but now most of them died... maybe lol.


And i do think that heavy horse are very powerful, i certainly seem to have noticed that fighting Ascalon, their cavalry certainly appeared to have performed very well. Thats why i am converting my plate troops to cavalry now :p (very slowly hehe)

Tom

  • Head Developer
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6320
  • Karma: +102/-15
    • View Profile
    • Might & Fealty
Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #206 on: October 14, 2015, 12:44:06 AM »
Is there much difference between chain/horse and plate/warhorse?

Yes, there's a considerable difference.

One thing that a lot of people do wrong, however, is to train heavy troops fresh. The game mechanics are a bit difficult to explain without giving them away outright (they are actually fairly straightforward).
Basically, there is a cap on how much experience will yield you. Especially with a rebalance that will go live soon, you will find that a veteran spearman and an expert spearman, for example, don't make so much of a difference. But an elite heavy cavalry can go much beyond a fresh heavy cavalry.

Exactly because they are so expensive to make, you should not recruit them fresh, you should re-train highly experienced troops to this high-end equipment.


WVH

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 299
  • Karma: +20/-47
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #207 on: October 14, 2015, 01:45:18 AM »
Exactly because they are so expensive to make, you should not recruit them fresh, you should re-train highly experienced troops to this high-end equipment.

It only took me a few thousand warriors, but that is what I am doing now.  It makes sense from an RP leadership perspective.  You cull the weak and reward the strong.

But are the experienced any less human?  Will they not get just as fearful for their life in a battle gone wrong?  So they should still run when it is time to run, and not stick around to die?  Or do you have another realistic thought on that situation?

Tweeznax

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 339
  • Karma: +11/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #208 on: October 14, 2015, 01:49:19 AM »
Veteran soldiers are less likely to run when ordered not to because of discipline, and less likely to run from difficult situations period, but they should be just as likely to flee from IMPOSSIBLE situations. Perhaps they should simply recover morale faster after such situations.

Tom

  • Head Developer
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6320
  • Karma: +102/-15
    • View Profile
    • Might & Fealty
Re: Ongoing Statistics
« Reply #209 on: October 14, 2015, 08:07:11 AM »
Experience makes them retreat later.

I agree that there should be something like a strategic retreat. But to code that, I need an interactive element, because it should be a player decision if he wants to retreat when the going gets tough, or fight till the last man.