Author Topic: Losing is fun  (Read 2174 times)

Tom

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Losing is fun
« on: April 15, 2014, 01:20:57 PM »
I'd like to propose an addition to the Rathgar culture that would improve the gameplay from an OOC perspective and merges well with the warrior culture AND is based on real-world lore.

I've seen you have the concept of "untested in battle". I propose to extend it. My proposal is this:

Quote
They say that you are not a real man until you have been beaten in battle.


Note "beaten". This comes from various real-world warrior cultures that focus on the aspect that when you get into a fight, you get hurt, and to become a man, you need to learn to take it. It's not winning a fight that makes you a man, it's being able to keep fighting even after you've been hurt.

Under this definition, being wounded in a battle would count as a personal defeat, even if ultimately your side prevailed.


The OOC point is that with this as a roleplaying device, people would want to get into battles more, even if (or especially if) the odds are not 10:1 in their favor.


PanH

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Re: Losing is fun
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2014, 05:15:07 PM »
I think there's already a culture of fighting in Rathgar, regardless of defeat or victory. I know that I already had a few battles with my neighbour, and there was honor even in defeat, to show that you are able to fight even if you know you will lose.

Valast

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Re: Losing is fun
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2014, 05:30:35 PM »
That is how all sports are played right?  You loose to become stronger.

That will not fix Rathgars problem however.  Our problem right now is that everyone is sizing everyone else up.  It sucks because people talk big and then do nothing.

In Valinor I want to create a culture that requires fighting.  You want to trade a settlement with me...fine but we must do battle to seal the deal with blood.  Otherwise the Gods will not bless the exchange.

I want it to be the internal practice also but will take a week or two of organization to be ready.  Have to get everyone who is a vassal into the groove of how to play.  Slow start.

Now that I am thinking about it, maybe it is just my control issue that is holding valinor back in this.  Perhaps that is the same attitude of all Rathgar... maybe everyone in the game.

We are all waiting for that perfect moment when we feel like we are secure enough to be and do what RP dictates... when in fact we MUST be doing it right now when things are not perfect.

If you do not let loose and just go with the RP now... you fail.  Let go of the control and stop playing Simcity.  #InGameEnlightenment

Tan dSerrai

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Re: Losing is fun
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2014, 05:51:06 PM »
I did propagate a 'raiding to take lords captive' initiative in Clan d'Serrai. Interest was very lukewarm....one char plans to go hunting but thats about it.

Hm...that reminds me that I did want to push the raiding-custom forward. Will do that now....maybe that sparks some conflict.

Valast

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Re: Losing is fun
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2014, 06:01:01 PM »
Tan: I like the idea.  I have just been caught up in self involved mindset of catching up.  In my mind I know how I want the realm to look.  To get it there I needed players active to help.  Once I gained those three players things shaped up in planning but still taking time to get settlements into the correct control/sub realms.

It is just today, after Tom's post about loosing, that I caught myself being on the wrong end of how to play.  I know that we need to develop and set everything right but instead of hurrying to do it and putting RP on the side to play catch up, I need to be playing the damn game as intended and designed.

I guess what I realized is that there will ALWAYS be another task to do, place to be... and I am missing out on lots of fun being caught up in that.  It puts out the wrong vibe to everyone...and I am surely not the only player who is caught up doing this.

I hear a lot about how settlements are not set up yet or soldiers training too slowly... It is all ooc anti Rathgar culture ideas.  It does not matter if you have one soldier and no walls on any settlement, Rathgar would still go fight someone... We would fight just to make the Gods smile on our transactions or our alliances.  Valinor WILL be played this way from now on.  In fact, I am going to require a battle with every alliance.  Even the Thing should have multiple battles going on just to boast of being stronger or to seek the Gods favor.  Heck we should/could even have a series of battles to see who will lead a raid instead of voting based on number of spears.

Players are the reason battles are not taking place all the time.  Not the game its self.

Tan dSerrai

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Re: Losing is fun
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2014, 06:15:49 PM »
Good thoughts indeed. Will mull them over and try to integrate all/part of them into clan d'Serrai.

I still think the most important thing is to enable smallscale fights that can be _fun_ and that have at least some kind of restraint put on them so that both sides can be reasonable sure that they will not completely spiral out of control...both verbally into endless 'you attacked me', 'no, you attacked me first', 'no you' and into all out war.

Stonedman

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Re: Losing is fun
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2014, 07:13:24 PM »
I did propose a sort of "battle royal" to decide future leaders of the realm, but everyone was against it :p
I'm not in favour of raiding with the intention of taking other nobles captive, but people are free to raid my non homelands ( all 2 of them )
I would be up for Clan v Clan battles for Honour, rather than attacking with the purpose of taking land from eachother. It's just hard to willingly throw away troops for no reason when due to my small holdings, and game mechanics it takes sooo long to build  up and kind of force, i'm sure i already have the smallest army of all founding clans anyway.
If i lose a battle, and eg 50-70 troops, it will currently take 1.5 to 2 weeks real time to replace them with equal troops.

Valast

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Re: Losing is fun
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2014, 07:21:41 PM »
If i lose a battle, and eg 50-70 troops, it will currently take 1.5 to 2 weeks real time to replace them with equal troops.

If that is the case then it almost puts warriors as a higher cost resource than food.  Find someone wanting to build and offer them trade? 

Tom

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Re: Losing is fun
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2014, 10:59:44 PM »
I hear a lot about how settlements are not set up yet or soldiers training too slowly...

But that will never change. A Citadel takes one-and-a-half million work-hours to complete. You can always train more soldiers, and what you gain in speed by growing your town you lose because then you can also produce higher-quality equipment and you'll want to use it.


I think what needs to *click* is that everyone else is in the same position. It doesn't matter if your settlement is small or large or finished or still building or whatever. The only thing that matters is how you stand in relation to your enemy.

Tom

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Re: Losing is fun
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2014, 11:01:51 PM »
I did propose a sort of "battle royal" to decide future leaders of the realm, but everyone was against it :p

And that's the part I'm beginning to rage about. You define a warrior culture based on strength and blood - and then you go and have a peace-loving hippie vote about whether you actually want to hurt someone.


I'm waiting for the guy who doesn't propose a vote on whether or not the king should be elected or fought, but puts himself out there and says "hey king, I challenge you. here and now. fight me or crawl away in dishonour."