Author Topic: Rathgar: Basic Concept  (Read 15068 times)

Valast

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Re: Basic Concept - for discussion
« Reply #75 on: November 21, 2013, 04:31:28 PM »
Another question you need to answer is the first ones general attitude toward the mortals.  In the alpha realm we may declare ourselves gods over them.  It would be a fascinating cultural clash if you gave them the right to vote and control your actions.  Fascinating.

I like the Gods idea for the A realm... would not work here of course.  In my mind it will end up being a personal family choice on how they interact with their 'humans'... I think we are all separate tribes who have become united some how on the base of our barbaric ways.  My own family will consider ourselves the protectors of our humans.  They are weak but they are ours... Others may consider them distant family because the same Gods created them.  Or others may just like to get drunk and fondle them.  The many ways nobles will interact with the humans will be a great way to cause internal friction between tribes.  For example my family would hate one who used the humans as food or slave labor.  We would still be united with them but they certainly would not be welcome to come over for dinner.


Bubba

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Re: Basic Concept - for discussion
« Reply #76 on: November 21, 2013, 04:38:44 PM »
1) The idea of however many soldiers you bring to vote gets you more votes is out.  MOST importantly, it would keep people from giving out soldiers to others.

Funny how we've gone from "massively liked" to "out". Hail, King Valast.

You give 10 soldiers to an ally, and he likes you, raises 10 more and you've got 20 o your side at the Thing. Your objection that the system discourages sharing is absurd.

No vote at all. No true realm at all, in fact. I have my corner of the kingdom and my own allies, and you have yours. I have bottomless goodwill for those that wish it. Attack me, and I may lose the war, but taking my enemy down with me is the last thing I will accomplish before my end. I will weaken you in my defeat so that others wisely standing back and keeping their strength will rule over you. I cling tenaciously to my enemies like a thorn--no quitter in a hard-fought fight, am I!

Zakath

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Re: Basic Concept - for discussion
« Reply #77 on: November 21, 2013, 04:43:04 PM »
I really dislike the proposed trial by combat. It'd be fine if there was some sort of way to do it with our characters, but using your troops for it just seems wrong. You could just as well attack the other person if you're bringing troops directly into it, which isn't an unheard of thing in the era.


You neglected my proposal in the list though:
One vote per noble _if_ you have a strong household guard. No limit of one per account, so you can spam your characters, assign enough troops to them, and your tribe will have as many votes as you want.


Another issue. What exactly are we voting over? Replacement of kings? I'd imagine a reigning king would probably have to be driven out by force, at the death of a king voting for a new one would be sensible. Or are we running a rotating kingship of sorts?


Could be interesting thing though. Break the realm up into petty kingdoms and elect a king for purely administrative purposes. No power, just the figurehead.


*edit*
Alternately have the King be a religious order that's supposedly neutral among the petty kingdoms. They have the capital, and possibly some farmland around it, and host the thing/moot or whatever we name it. At the moot any petty king (duke level realm) has an equal voice. How the Petty King comes to power, be it murder, divine right, inheritance, election is of no concern to the thing or the king. The King is bound by the voice of the council, and has no say in the decisions other than purely advisory. If two Petty Kings disagree they can agree to disagree, or start their own little civil war.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 04:53:17 PM by Zakath »

Valast

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Re: Basic Concept - for discussion
« Reply #78 on: November 21, 2013, 04:47:03 PM »
Funny how we've gone from "massively liked" to "out". Hail, King Valast.

Eaaaasy killer... settle down now.  Someone grab the horse tranquilizer!

Everything I post is just my opinion in a discussion.  I guess I need a signature saying that.

Bubba

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Re: Basic Concept - for discussion
« Reply #79 on: November 21, 2013, 05:08:20 PM »
Eaaaasy killer... settle down now.  Someone grab the horse tranquilizer!


"Warrargh!" Bites shield.

De-Legro

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Re: Basic Concept - for discussion
« Reply #80 on: November 21, 2013, 11:58:45 PM »
The more I think about it, the more I like simple thresholds. Have the rank of a noble in the realm be predominately decided by the troops he commands. Use thresholds to determine the ranks and each rank has a different number of votes


For example.



  • You have some troops, and they actually look like warrior. Congrats you are a Karl and have 1 vote within the council
  • You have gathered enough troops to threaten a village (lets say 30 or more light infantry). You are a Thane and get 2 votes
  • Your men have beards, look mean and obviously are successful raiders (better equipment, lets say 20 medium infantry). Hail Jarl, you get 3 votes
In terms of emptying garrisons. The thresholds would help here a bit. Other solutions
  • Police it, if someone turns up with 200% more troops then you are used to seeing them run around with, call them on it, examine their holdings and hold them responsible. The vote should be based on your raiding party, that is the troops you  habitually spare from your defense obligations for all the fun stuff like pillaging the neighbors.
  • Have a rule that during a conclave, any region that can be conquered by a force no larger then (x troops) is free game to all. Do you risk emptying your garrison for an important vote? Do you decide not to attend the vote and attempt to take poorly defended holdings?
He who was once known as Blackfyre

cenrae

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Re: Basic Concept - for discussion
« Reply #81 on: November 23, 2013, 06:59:50 AM »
What do each of you see when you close your eyes and imagine what we are building?  What do the people look like, what are they wearing?  How are women and children treated?  Do you see animals running loose or do you see weapons hung on the door of every hut?  How are commoners treated...ignored, with kindness as if a pet, or like live stock?
How are disputes handled?  Are fights handled in the street or do they have a dueling ground...a battle field for larger fights?  If someone looses in a dispute battle do they then have to swear a new oath to the victor?


I see a realm of divided powers drawn together by a common cause.

The people are typically rather ruff, wearing furs and leather. Jewelry is what they can make but the true warrior gets his from his victories.

The native women and children are just above personal property to be used by the First Ones as they see fit. However in my tribe/clan those that do not work the fields or maintain the villages are raised above the common man and trained to fight or scout. This they consider an honor as they can earn respect and possibly a wealthy retirement in this world and the next. If the common human has promise I care not if they are man or woman.
Clan Skies | House Kye on BM

Alumaani

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Re: Basic Concept - for discussion
« Reply #82 on: December 06, 2013, 06:54:45 PM »
Hi guys,

Sorry for the late arrival!  I wanted to add my thoughts briefly:


Danelaw concept is great.  If any of you haven't read Bernard Cornwells series The Warrior Chronicles then read it http://www.bernardcornwell.net/.  I think you will love it and it is a world I would love to be a part of.  It contains the love of Nordic gods, the freeman principles and a great deal of fighting and respect for the warrior class.  All of which Bubba was discussing but in a less barbaric context.  Land was held according to your ability to hold and defend it and fealty was offered to those men more powerful than you with a great disrespect for the weak and unworthy.

The voting thing with all troops present seems a little silly although I love the concept of your bodyguard representing your status.  It would mean that everytime we have to make a major decision, our whole army would leave the field, garrisoned towns and whatever else just to vote.  Our whole engagements at that time would have to come to a stop!  How do we even count that up?  Someone is going to sit and scroll through each character and count the men?  What if the number of men counted is disagreed upon?  A recount?  It doesn't make sense at all.  Lets stick with the Huscarl thing and allow each lord to bring 10 medium warriors allowing 1 vote for each.  Its simple and yet allows a degree of advantage, if you want to win a vote, ambush your opponent on route to the meeting and kill his men!

The discussion is LONG and could continue but I think that its important to get the basics in place and the rest will flow as a story progressing with each player bringing his own style to his family/clan.




Valast

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Re: Basic Concept - for discussion
« Reply #83 on: February 10, 2014, 11:33:21 PM »
Was thinking... perhaps a dictionary would come in handy?  Some place where we can, as we develop, provide words/meanings so that others who come along to Rathgar later can look things up when stuck?

Even some of the basic things we have already agreed to will be unknown to many.

Tom

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Re: Basic Concept - for discussion
« Reply #84 on: February 11, 2014, 12:54:03 AM »
Sadly, I didn't have time to set up a Wiki for the game so far. But I kind of plan to.